Campingaz, HOW MUCH!? Refilling them is easy.

[steve8090]

No, proper refillable bottles with gauges fill points like your camper and safe fill to 80%, I have a 6kg on my caravan and it fills for £6.50, don't ever advertise in public you are filling bottles the are not purpose built for refill, trading standards are on the look out for this, they have already prosecuted 3 sellers on eBay for selling equipment to fill standard bottles, please be careful

[The Bishop]

I thought I did a reasonable bit of cooking in the van and get through 2x6kg bottles a year. So five bottles (2 1/2 years) to get my money back and a saving of £30 a year to risk life and limb doesn't really seem worthwhile.

Or am I wrong, is 2 bottles a year light usage?

[Sunray]

This is common practice in Spain, and in my experience anyway a very stupid thing to do. Generally a canister refilled like this will leak. Do it by all means but take note of the earlier pictures - you deserve to be in the awards nominations...;.....

I take issue with this because the campingaz adaptor I have, pictured above, has an identical fitting to my gas regulator.

What you are therefore saying is that use of my gas regulator will make it leak, which of course is a daft statement.

[Sunray]

I thought I did a reasonable bit of cooking in the van and get through 2x6kg bottles a year. So five bottles (2 1/2 years) to get my money back and a saving of £30 a year to risk life and limb doesn't really seem worthwhile.

Or am I wrong, is 2 bottles a year light usage?

Very light usage. I've a propex space heater. I went camping the other day for 5 days and used just shy of 1 1/2 Camping gaz 907 bottles with the heater, cooking and fridge.

How am I risking a limb?

I just topped another up saving me the hassle of it running out when out. zero leakage.

[jamesc76]

I have a Gaslow bottle, linky to a review they are 100% legal to fill, have the 80% cut off and works out loads cheaper in the long run, I can happily fill it up in a petrol station as it has the proper lpg connection!

If your thick and want to try and overfill and then potentially blow your self up crack on with the cheapo method!!!!!

[andisnewsyncro]

This is common practice in Spain, and in my experience anyway a very stupid thing to do. Generally a canister refilled like this will leak. Do it by all means but take note of the earlier pictures - you deserve to be in the awards nominations...;.....

I take issue with this because the campingaz adaptor I have, pictured above, has an identical fitting to my gas regulator.

What you are therefore saying is that use of my gas regulator will make it leak, which of course is a daft statement.

I am speaking from experience of badly filled CG bottles. Please don't put words into my mouth.

If you want to fill your own bottles then go ahead, personally I think it's stupid. Why not just use a Calor bottle and reg in the 1st place?

[Sunray]

Because its an original pro conversion and that would cost me many hundreds of pounds to get altered to fit a Calor.

Just lost 1/2 my pots and pans cupboard to the propex. I'm loath to lose more space.

Far easier and cheaper to fill it from a cylinder. I'm also liking the convenience of being able to top up when needed.

[Sunray]

Still alive.

I've just about emptied a 15kg calor over many trips and festivals this summer. The incredible convienence of having full bottles at the start of every trip makes doing this worthwhile, factor in the cost of getting to the man for replacements and the cost of refills!!! I've saved well over 100 quid and will continue rake in the savings.

[ed_crouch]

I have to say I don't totally understand why refilling/decanting LPG is such a dangerous practise?

OK, so there are I reckon 4 main hazards:

1) asphyxiation due to displacement of breathable atmosphere. LPG sinks in air.
2) Fire/explosions
3) Burst/ruptured bottles
4) Thermal injury due to the effects of enthalpy of vaporisation of the liquid.

1) Do it in open space - do it with a Crowcon alarm clipped to your collar if you're really concerned.

2) The the sheer volume of liquid could be a danger given a large leak, and any fire would be a big one. But to be honest, we're all driving bombs anyway with fuel and LPG and sparks all in one happy bundle of joy.

3) LPG vapour pressure... You could fill a bottle BRIM CHOCK full of liquid, and it would not burst. LPG has a vapour pressure of about 30psi at rooms temps, that means the liquid will keep on evaporating into a closed space until the pressure of the vapour in the ullage (void in the top of the tank) reaches a pressure of 30PSI. Hence, the significant risk to the integrity of the vessel comes from either excessive temperatures (vapour pressure is a function of temperature), or mechanical/chemical (corrosion) damage to the bottle.

The idea of overfilling bottles is probably only a danger if you end up pushing liquid through the burner in the cooker/heater, which would either extinguish the flame or cause a fairly big flare up which could be nasty.

4) It takes energy to make a fluid change state (liquid - gas/vapour), and that energy comes from the internal energy of the bulk liquid from which the vapour forms. Internal energy is effectively heat; temperature. the Liquid cools down MARKEDLY as it evaporates. This is why when you really crank up an LPG burner, the cylinder gets cold. It isn't due to adiabatic depressurisation (P*V/T etc), its due to the fact that by running gas off, youre reducing the pressure of the vapour on top of the bulk liquid, so it starts to evaporate again to re-establish equilibrium pressure. The faster you drain the gas off (i.e. the harder you're frying your hangover bacon whilst tripping over empties from a heavy night on the sauce!) the faster the bulk liquid in the LPG tank evaporates. Rate of evaporation is therefore proportional to the temperature drop in the cylinder, which is why those "pooh" camping stoves you buy for 10 quid with the aerosol gas cannister struggle to boil a full kettle. Run flat out, the rate of evaporation inside the cannister is so high that the bulk liquid cools to a point where the vapour pressure is only JUST above 1 bar absolute (i.e. the LPG more or less STOPS evaporating) , so the delivery pressure drops like a stone and the flame shrinks until it almost goes out.

The cooling effect is also why bottles get wet on the outside below the liquid line - its condensation, because the temperature of the bottle has dropped below the ambient dew point.

All of this lot means that you can get frostbite if you spill liquid LPG on yourself because the LPG cools your skin and body tissues very rapidly as it boils (at ~37C, the vapour pressure of the liquid will be a lot more than atmospheric pressure, so it'll definitely boil vigorously on skin). Similar to lab best practise when working with cryogenics - wear reasonably close fitting clothing and NO big pockets incase you accidentally get a pocketful. More LPG = worse frostbite.

Soooooooooo, I don't think the naysayers are necessarily justified, but nonetheless they aren't going to do themselves any harm by avoiding this practise. It'll cost em more tho!

Frankly, with properly made decanting pipework, I don't see a problem, but go carefully. Its not without its hazards.

Just my tuppence worth.

All the best,

Ed.

[Wychall]

By 'eck, it's good listening to a learned man, even if it does make my brain hurt.....

[jamesc76]

Still alive.

I've just about emptied a 15kg calor over many trips and festivals this summer. The incredible convienence of having full bottles at the start of every trip makes doing this worthwhile, factor in the cost of getting to the man for replacements and the cost of refills!!! I've saved well over 100 quid and will continue rake in the savings.

And one day it will go wrong, and if your still alive afterwards, dont come whining here!

Get a LEGAL gaslow bottle and it would have payed for it self and all safe!



And the Darwin award goes to ...........................................................................

[ed_crouch]

I have to say that having researched the gaslow cylinder option (wasn't aware of it prior to reading this thread), it would be my preference. Refills at the petrol stations has got a lot going for it, especially all the way through the EU...!

Looks like they don't do a 907-sized one though?

Ed.

[jamesc76]

I have to say that having researched the gaslow cylinder option (wasn't aware of it prior to reading this thread), it would be my preference. Refills at the petrol stations has got a lot going for it, especially all the way through the EU...!

Looks like they don't do a 907-sized one though?

Ed.

No the only down side to um is there size, but most conversions can easily be adapted to accommodate there smallest!

[Plasticman]

part of my life involves building gear to pump O2 to 300 bar so I will hold my tongue regarding the advisbility of the above ,but...............Im somewhat at odds with £67 for the butane, ffs go to a depot and get a cyc, and secondly use propane not butane.
mm