fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

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Shaundon
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fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

Hi

I have what looks like an early fuse box but i think its been buggered about with ....

On testing my rad fan I found that the fan went through fuse 7? but the haynes says its supposed to be fuse1? or is that on later fuse boxes?

also as i have the 2 speed fan , the high speed is supposed to go through relay position 5 - which of these is relay 5 for the fan....?

Image

S.
Last edited by Shaundon on 23 Jun 2014, 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Shaundon
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Re: fuses and relay positions?

Post by Shaundon »

according to this http://www.westfaliat3.info/1983_VW_T25 ... iaT3WM.pdf(page 58) fuse 7 is the rad fan, so maybee its not been messed too much....

Still dont know which relay im looking for to switch the fan to high speed...??
1984 1.9 petrol wbx DH with a pierburg carb , LHD westfalia club joker.

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Re: fuses and relay positions? / rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

ok looking at another thread on here http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=15

the relay is up next to the lscu relay 42/3 on the piller under the dash

fixed a bad earth and my fan now comes on at low speed but on setting it to high speed it blew fuse number 7 which is only 8 amps

before changing it to 16 amps gonna check the wiring in there as its all a bit of a rats nest at moment....
1984 1.9 petrol wbx DH with a pierburg carb , LHD westfalia club joker.

Shaundon
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

thats weird

the red and white wire goes from the fuse box down to the thermo switch and to the relay via a spade connection spliter at the fuse

if at low speed it goes direct to the fan from the thermo switch

if at high speed it goes back up via the red and blue wire and then connects the relay coil to ground and thus connects the other red and white wire from the fuse box via the relay contacts to the red wire that goes back down to the fan.

why bother going through the relay to do that?

still goes through the same 8 amp fuse and the wires appear to be same thickness!?

wires are about 2.5mm so should be ok to use 16amp fuse?
1984 1.9 petrol wbx DH with a pierburg carb , LHD westfalia club joker.

Shaundon
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

ah - i think i get it

when thermo switch at hottest both switches make contact and thus both 2.5 wires provide power to the fan thus doubling the current they can carry...

can anyone confirm this?

S.
1984 1.9 petrol wbx DH with a pierburg carb , LHD westfalia club joker.

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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by CovKid »

Nothing like talking to yourself :shock:

And its none of those relays, look a bit higher under the dash.

You need the relay on high speed because its drawing a LOT of current and more than your 10amp fusebox was designed for
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Shaundon
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

yeah was beginning to think i was talking to myself -

You need the relay on high speed because its drawing a LOT of current and more than your 10amp fusebox was designed for

but it still draws it through the fuse box - i'm guessing the higher power 2 speed fan was added at a later date and its never been tested on high speed, cause at the moment it blows even a 16 amp fuse, gonna take it off the fuse box and add a 30 amp inline fuse...
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

My later van relay. Colours may be different. It is a 70 Amp one.

Image

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... y&start=15
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

interesting - so you have an inline fuse on that relay

on mine there is no fuse there and the red and white 12v wire goes back to fuse 7 in the early fuse box which is no way able to handle the current required by the fan on high
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

so going to fuse 7 (from the battery side before going through fuse)I have two thick red wires one of which also has a thin red and orange wire attached - im guessing they are both from battery and one should goto an inline fuse before going to the relay

but its so tangled and messy behind the fuse box its hard to track anything!!
almost at the point of rewiring the fuse box :(

can anyone with an early fuse box see whats connected to fuse 7 in theirs?
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

That's a 50A fuse on the relay I think.
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by CovKid »

Mine is an 84 with early fusebox which is why I said look up higher than the fusebox as thats where the high-speed relay should be. Its cube-shaped. I can't dig around mine until the weekend (feel a physical wreck after doing the clutch on Sunday) but happy to do so if you can hang in there.
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

I feel your pain - I am still recovering from replacing the gearbox last week, as you get older it hits you more and more.
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Shaundon
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by Shaundon »

Thanks CovKid -

i have found the relay but the wiring on my van doesnt seem suited to it as both the 12v feed to the thermo switch and the relay pass through a single 8amp fuse in position number 7 on the fuse box. Theres no fuse on the relay.

I tried a 16 amp fuse but it blew too on hi speed and i dont want to put anything bigger in the old fuse box as i doubt it could handle the current.

Im now looking to reroute it through a bigger inline fuse but im worried as the whole fusebox seems to be fed from the battery via a 4mm2 wire which I think will get too hot if its feeding the fuse box and a 30+Amp fan.
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Re: fuses and relay positions? rad fan wiring

Post by CovKid »

Right, lets figure this out.

I had a similar prob - blowing fuse on high speed. I think I was up to a 20amp fuse and a hot fusebox before I got fed up and decided to pinpoint the cause!

Basically (in theory) the relay circuit draws little on the primary (fusebox) side. All its doing is powering a switch (the relay) to carry current via the other two cables on the relay which are rated for the job. I'm asuming you understand how relays work. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mru8BbTGDwM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

My fuse kept blowing too and it shouldn't because one assumes that the relay is doing all the work right? Now, that can only change if there is (for whatever reason) resistance in the primary circuit, it will cause the circuit to get warm and blow the fuse, or cook the wires or fuseholder if the fuse rating is too high. Took me a while to isolate it but all it needed was to remove the relay, clean the contacts and re-seat it a couple of times. I also removed the relevant spades from existing fusebox and fitted an inline fuse but you may not need to do that.

If your 16amp fuse is blowing, you can bet that circuit is getting a tadge warm, and you can check connections to back of fusebox to see if they look like they have heated up. It only takes a duff connection on the relay or connections to fusebox to have this issue. Try removing relay, giving it a good clean, and pushing it back into its socket - chances are the problem will vanish. The relay could be faulty but I'd suggest its unlikely and this will be down to corroded contacts. It nearly always is.

Do NOT fit a bigger fuse - sort the problem out or you'll have a fire. I think you're not quite grasping how the relay fits in here and drawing the wrong conclusions as a result. The wiring is in all probability correct - just dirty. The relay in particular can get just as corroded as earth crowns.

In answer to:

Shaundon wrote:
at high speed it goes back up via the red and blue wire and then connects the relay coil to ground and thus connects the other red and white wire from the fuse box via the relay contacts to the red wire that goes back down to the fan.

It doesn't. The primary circuit goes live when you switch to high speed, switching the relay on the secondary circuit and passing current to the fan via chunkier cable. If it ran from the primary circuit (like low speed), it would blow the fuse instantly. The draw from a motor can be substantial when its going some, which is why nearly all car fans and motors have to use a relay. No fusebox could cope with that.
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