wiring from battery to starter

[ermie571]

That was how it was supplied!

[ghost123uk]

I can turn the motor by hand...it rumbles but it doesn't feel tight.

The motor only has 1 bearing in it, at one end, the bearing for the "cog" end is left behind in the bell-housing. (This is the "oilite" one that you should change when fitting a new starter). When you turn the motor off the vehicle, the innerds are not supported at the cog end and the armature rubs against the outer magnets. I doubt harm would result from turning by hand, but this is the reason you should never test the unit on 12 Volts whilst off the vehicle.

[Tysoe]

Just posting to say i share your pain and will be starting the same journey as you now the problem has become more serious!

My van would regularly turn the engine slowly once or twice and then fire up and has now deteriorated to not starting if it's warm. Popped to Morrisons last night (3 minute drive) and when i came out the van wouldn't start, seemed like a flat battery but i knew it wasn't. Ended up leaving it over night, went back this morning and started first time but tried again when i got to work (about 2 mins away) and it wouldn't start again. I'm guessing i have a dodgy connection somewhere.

Fun and games

[ghost123uk]

@ Tysoe first off you should really start a new thread as mixing different folks issues into one thread can get confusing.
This is why I put "@ Tysoe" at the start of this

However, Em is a nice person so she won't likely mind.

I would say it is quite possible yours is not a simple bad connection because the symptoms are the wrong way around. Normally the load imposed on connections and batteries is higher when everything is cold. I would put my money on the starter motor itself, or possibly the bush, the one mentioned above that stays in the bellhousing when the starter is removed.

There is a way to check. Get your meter out and get a friend to help :-

Set it to the 20 Volt DC setting.

Unplug all the smaller wires from the terminal on one side (only) of the the coil (to stop the engine starting up).

Hold the red probe very securely to a nice bare bit of alloy anywhere on the engine.

Hold the black probe onto a nice bare bit of metal on the main bodywork near the engine, the screws that hold the ignition amp (small black box near the front left of the engine bay would be good).

Now get someone to crank the engine.

Make a note of what the volt meter says.

Anything more than about 1 volt indicates that the engine earth (from the "nose" of the gearbox) to the chassis needs attention (or another earth strap adding = easier )

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Now put your meter across the battery terminals (at this point it should read about 12.6 volts).

Now get your friend to crank the engine.

Make a note of the reading. Depending on the condition of your battery it will likely fall to about 10 or 11 volts, make a note of the exact figure.

Now put the red probe on the top heavy duty connector on the solenoid (top of the starter) and the black probe to a good earth on the engine (note = not the body this time). At this point it should read the same as when it was on the battery, check

Now crank the engine again and read what the meter says.

If it is anything more than around 2 Volts less than the figure got from the battery whilst cranking, then yes, the +ve feed cables and / or connections from the battery to the solenoid are suspect.

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If the above does not show any poor readings then it could be the tiny but fat cable that links the starter to the solenoid (not unusual that issue).

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Don't forget to put those wires back onto the spade connector on the coil

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Mind you, your symptoms could also easily be a failing starter motor itself, in fact imho that is the most likely and you can sort out the connections at that end, plus the obligatory replacement of that afore mentioned bush (a bit tricky that job) at the same time

Let us know what you find as it will help others.

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ps = you could start a new thread = "Lazy starting when hot" and cut and paste your question and "quote" my reply into it What you reckon Em

[Tysoe]

Thanks very much, started a new thread as suggested and credited your answer

Lots of useful info so hopefully will help others test too.

Will update once I've investigated further!

Just gotta find a friend now.....

[ermie571]

ok...ths weekend Mark came up and we whipped off the starter motor.

1. philips screwdriver undo the two small screws at the base of the unit and remove the cover. mine had no lubrication under there at all. grease added...make sure its not graphite based. I didn't realise but there is an oilite bearing in there too....
2. be bloody careful with the cover removed...if the armature at the nose end of the init isnt supported it will off the brushes as Ghost states above. then its all the fun of the fair to relocate the brushes lol
3. only use a veryvthin smear of grease on the armature end as the startwr gathers clutch dust...you dont want greasy clumps of that in your starter lol x

After listening to the van trying to start, Mark also moved my timing very slightly...he turned the dzzy clockwise a very small amount. not advocating this...but the van is starting better than before with all the added lubrication in the starter and in the oilite bush in the bellhousing(?) Iirc he said if the engine is too advanced it will struggle to start...the small movement clockwise reduces the amount of advance.

anyway...have driven her to hastings and back today. had a 15 minute stop on the way down which she started fine from....and a gas fill stop on the way home.....also started ok. it was the fuel fill that caught me out on saturday.

Em xx

[CovKid]

Heads up. I'm about to move on to main fusebox tomorrow.