westfalia second battery not charging

[Natevwt3]

hello every one out there in vanland!

I have a 87 1.6td westfalia, which i traveled around Europe in 2012 with no problems. At the end of the trip a German friend of mine came and picked the van up from Spain to take back to store in Germany till i return.
On his trip through France the luck ran out and he had the alternator replaced and some wiring modified!
Since picking up the van there is no charge going to the second battery while the engine is running.
I can not find any blown fuses and believe when the new alternator and relay were fitted it was not done correctly.

I have taken some photos showing how it has been done but can not upload them. they are jpegs from my phone.

cheers, Nate.

[Natevwt3]

http://s25.postimg.org/sni9ieabj/IMG_0488_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s25.postimg.org/yppw8vyrj/IMG_0483_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


When the engine is running there is power to both red wires going to the relay. the black wire in the middle has nothing. the black wire has been spliced into a red/black wire in the box located rear left corner( when looking in from rear)

[California Dreamin]

And the brown wire? shouldn't that be connected to one of the pins to complete the switching side? no earth, no relay operation.

Martin

[Hacksawbob]

Hi the red black wire is the speed sensing circuit for the rev counter on the dash. I am not familiar with it's operation, but I would guess it is either sending pulses or a varying analogue voltage to indicate engine speed neither of which would be a suitable source for "engine running" signal for the solenoid, It is more usual to use the alternator running charging light which is a black wire that runs to the D+ on the rear of the alternator, (the red black runs to the W connector for speed sensing assuming the wiring is standard)

although you say both red wires are live when engine is running are they both disconnected when the engine is off? If so then the solenoid would appear to be working.

Check that this solenoid is not running in conjuction with the relay under the seat.
check for continuity on the red wire that goes to the forward battery, ie disconnect at both ends and with an extender wire set your multimeter to beep and test the wire.
your fridge should be running from this wire as well, just by eye I would say that it is not thick enough to take the voltage, it may have melted and is earthing, is there a fuse setup in this system? (there should be one near the rear battery) , check if it has blown, if there is not then think about installing one.

Got to ask what was wrong with the original setup, here is a diagram and some notes I made when I was trying to understand my westy setup
http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/Ca ... y_charging" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[syncroandy]

Gaaah ! NO !

On a factory-fit 2nd. battery relay (Westie, Multivan etc.), terminal 85 (cold end of relay coil) is connected via a red/black wire to terminal 50 (starter solenoid). Terminal 86 (hot end of relay coil) is connected to the alternator D+ terminal (blue wire).

This ensures that the main and second batteries are NOT connected during cranking, when there is maximum demand on the main battery.

After the engine starts and the alternator is charging, the tiny current taken to energise the 2nd. battery relay flows through the starter solenoid to earth, the current is so small the starter solenoid doesn't notice it.

In summary the relay connections *should* be:

Terminal 87 - Main battery positive, red 6mm wire
Terminal 30 - 2nd. battery positive, red 6mm wire
Terminal 85 - Starter solenoid, red/black 1mm wire (could also be earthed, but this would mean relay could activate while cranking, which isn't ideal)
Terminal 86 - Alternator D+, 1mm blue wire

Rant over..

E D I T: I'll post up a pic, give me a mo..

[syncroandy]

Pic here

[Hacksawbob]

Nice one Andy, A lot clearer than mine!

[syncroandy]

Cheers. Hopefully the OP has enough info now to check their system, or pass it on to someone with the right skills to sort. I can only speculate but possibly the relay in the pics was added in an attempt to bodge a problem with the replacement alt. The original Westie 2nd. batt relay is under the front left seat.

[Smiffo]

hello every one out there in vanland!

I have a 87 1.6td westfalia, which i traveled around Europe in 2012 with no problems. At the end of the trip a German friend of mine came and picked the van up from Spain to take back to store in Germany till i return.
On his trip through France the luck ran out and he had the alternator replaced and some wiring modified!
Since picking up the van there is no charge going to the second battery while the engine is running.
I can not find any blown fuses and believe when the new alternator and relay were fitted it was not done correctly.

I have taken some photos showing how it has been done but can not upload them. they are jpegs from my phone.

cheers, Nate.

Previous owner had similar problems with my Holdsworth.

I don't know whether you know if that relay is a new setup or not or guessing etc, or even if you have checked that there is no charge going to the leisure battery, but the previous owner of mine ripped out wiring and made a bit of a mess - turned out it was the leisure battery had a faulty cell, so the battery always read 10v - he assumed it was getting no charge and that the battery had just ran flat..

I don't want to stop some of the more knowlegeable here advising you - I am a newbie - but I would measure voltage on leisure battery terminals before and after engine running....
From memory, my batt read 10v before engine running, then a tad under 14v with it running....

It is possible, as with mine, that it is just the battery not taking the charge....

Just my two pence worth - took me two days to put back all the issues the last owner of my van caused because he didn't do this simple check....

Cheers, and good luck

[Natevwt3]

ok thanks for the replys.
the relay in the back doesnt seem to do anything, it has a red cable from the battery, another red going to alternator and then there is the black cable going to what i am told is the speed sensing circuit. the relay is also earthed. should i rip this out and try and restore the wiring to the original unit under the seat?

this is some of the wiring that has been changed. the blue and red/black wires have been cut and are not connected at either end. there is an unused connection with green and red wires.


http://s25.postimg.org/dcgbaopfj/IMG_0490_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s25.postimg.org/kw4syzt8f/IMG_0489_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Natevwt3]

http://s25.postimg.org/mlihksybj/IMG_0491_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

is that the original relay? nothing seems to of been tampered with at the second battery end.