Me tappet's still tapping...

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Dan Wood
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Me tappet's still tapping...

Post by Dan Wood »

The wiki isn't playing ball yet, so not sure where to get more info...

Thanks for listening to my engine folks and confirming that it probably is a tappet.

So, after making sure there is enough oil in, and taking a long drive I now need to try something else.

I've got some rocker cover gaskets now, so ready to take the lid off... Trouble is I've absolutely no idea what I will find under there. I know there are rockers and tappets, but to be honest I've no real understanding of how these things work, and so I've no idea what to look at.

The Haynes manual is a bit vague, but it does sound like something I could do. All their pictures have a nice shiny engine out of the vehicle though! I assume it is OK to attempt this with the engine in place?

And when I undo the rocker cover, does all the oil fall out onto the driveway and my feet? :roll:

Any photos anywhere I could look at?

Ta.

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Post by andylen »

Think I can hear a heart beat in there as well.
Is it air cooled or water cooled.?
Didn't see previous posts.

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Post by Dan Wood »

Watercooled... A 1.9DG

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Post by TYG »

Dan
do a search ^^ on here for tappets and cumbriankieth, he put up a few links as to how and why and by how much ,
as for spilling any oil on your drive , it will but very little, and if you take care and slip the rocker cover under it will catch most of it.
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Post by Dan Wood »

Thanks for that. I've had a good read, but still no wiser!

Will take the old girl out again for another 30 mins, just in case she shuts up! ;)

Failing that I'll have to have a go at adjusting them. I think it's just the one that's causing trouble though. If it was due to wear, wouldn't they all need doing?

Probably a stuck one that needs bleeding, but I don't fancy all that taking-out-of-bits lark! I can barely muster the confidence to do the screw adjustments...

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Post by Hacksawbob »

cheers for recording that did you do it on your phone? I will add it to the wiki when its back up and running. Thats what we want more of folks dodgy engine noises!!! as for your problem. yes there will be some oil that will come from the rocker covers, but not like loads, maybe an egg cup full, but that goes a long way. I've set the tappets on a bay but not one of these, I guess its similar. are you familiar with the workings of the flat 4 four? I recommend John Muirs "idiot book" as a good primer for engine mechanics generally and especially air cooled flat fours. Also http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm Anyway, working logically there is a metalic sound from your tappets, there are several bits to the valve train cam shaft (driven by the crank) cam followers, push rods rocker arms, valves, and keeping this all under tension are the valve springs. So as the cam shaft rotates the cam lobes lift the cam followers, which transfer that to the push rods which press against the rocker arm which opens the valve.

EDITED- the adjustment screw should be on the valve side not the pushrod side

Image

Image

In the case of solid lifters
the trick is that this system needs to have a bit of slack between the push rod and where it pushes against the rocker as when the engine warms up things expand and, hey presto! your drive train is now slightly longer and preventing your valve from closing fully. With a valve not fully closed your compression chamber will not seal so you are losing ooommmpppff! Also the exhaust valve transfers its nasty heat to the cylinder head in the brief moment it has in contact whith it. Bottom line is your valve should open and close fully too, too much tightness will lead to your valves not closing fully and overheating .

In the case of hydraulic lifters
these clever buggers use the oil in your engine to take the slack out of the system (hydraulic from hydro=water?) anyway the principle is that fluids cannot be compressed so you dont need the slack in the system that you do with solid lifters. HOWEVER when the engine is left unused for a while one or more of the lifters may drain down of there oil leaving air in the system under normal operation running the engine for a while bleed the air out and your all good again.


BUT you've still got that clackety clack after you have run the engine for 10 miles or so, so whats up? well maybe you have solid lifters put in when your engine was rebuilt, solid lifters are easier to set initially and CHEAPER. Because of this some engine reconditioners use these instead. In which case you've got to do the solid lifter adjustment. OR maybe those lifters/cam/engine is worn and not self adjusting correctly OR the valve is 'sticky' gunked up with thousands of miles of motoring the spring is not returning the valve to its seat, big gap causing rattle? any more offers?
Last edited by Hacksawbob on 11 May 2006, 11:16, edited 4 times in total.
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That's the sound

Post by cumbriankeith »

Yes that is the sound of a un-pumped hydraulic lifter. Sometimes mine would give that sort of racket for quite a few miles - lots more than 10 was needed to silence them. I renewed all mine (including bench bleeding them all before fitting!) Even so when the van had been parked up for a few days one or two might sometimes sound like that.
Be patient and drive it a bit more with the radio up loud!
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Re: That's the sound

Post by Cruz »

cumbriankeith wrote: Be patient and drive it a bit more with the radio up loud!
That's what I do.....smack my bitch up.....SHABBA!! :D

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Post by Dan Wood »

Thanks for that fantastic explanation Hacksawbob. At least I know what everything does now!

Don't worry about patronising me 'dbuya, I need all the info I can get! :D You're right though, I've NEVER worked on ANYTHING before, except auto-electrics which I do understand! I've a friend who restores old motorbikes and he can help me take the rocker cover off and have a quick look for any obvious trouble, but that's about it.

I'm thinking my best course of action is to book it back in to Si's brickwerks. He serviced it last month and I've only done a couple of hundred miles since, so something probably has broken. :(
In fact, I think the noise came on after a drive round rather than after being stood, which seems to go against everything I've read!

I'll keep doing short runs in the meantime, just in case it all starts to behave!

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Post by Hacksawbob »

no problem dan, I was "on one" just trying to get the valve train straight in my own head TBH. At least have a look at the valve train even if you dont adjust it, just for educational purposes, if you are sending it to si for proper job dont bother replacing seals, give them to him and let him mount them properly. But take a cover off and get someone to turn the engine over BY HAND whilst you watch what happens under those mystery covers!
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Post by T'Onion »

Dan
If i was you i would talk to Brickyard, cos if you undo one of the adjusting screws tooo much and the pushrod drops out of its cups then just getting it back in can be a right poker up the bottom, same as being over zealous with the adjustment and flatting the lifter ( i know cos i have done this ) , takes hours sometimes weeks to pump it back up and then you will have to re-adjust all over again ( i know cos i'm still doing this).
That reminds me must re do them tomorrow :evil:
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Post by Hacksawbob »

Some more google results

http://www.type2.com/library/engineg/hydral.htm type 4 engine but good info

http://www.bostonengine.com/articles/hydraulicll.htm

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/tech/hydcam.htm solid lifters better for higher revving
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Post by Dan Wood »

Thanks folks. I'm booked in at Si's in a couple of weeks. (He's too busy for his own good!)

What's the betting that I'll get a few hundred metres from the brickwerks, and the offending lifter will fill up and shut up? :shock:

With the weather being so good at the moment, what are your thoughts on continuing to drive around with such a rattley valve train? Likely to do harm or not?

Cheers.

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