Handbrake adjustment

[CJH]

I've just finished a complete refurb of the rear brakes, with new shoes, springs, cylinders and drums. I got everything back together this evening, bled them and adjusted them so that the footbrake seems to work well. Difficult to be sure without an MOT-type braking force test because the front brakes might be doing all the work for all I know, but they're dragging very slightly when the brakes aren't on and I know all the hydraulics work OK so I think they're about right.

But the handbrake seems worse than before. I have to pull it right up to make it secure, which I don't think I had to do before. I've tightened up the adjuster at the rear balance bar by a few turns, but I don't think that made any difference. However, it DID make the handbrake light on the dashboard glow all the time, even when the handbrake is released. It lights up more brightly when I apply the handbrake.

So I suspect I've done the balance bar adjuster up too far, although I'm surprised that's affected the light - I assumed that was a mechanical switch near the handbrake lever. So if I have to slacken off that balance bar adjuster to get rid of the light, where else can I adjust it so that it bites after fewer ratchet notches?

[itchyfeet]

Mmm from the man himself, dont need to touch the balance bar
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/rear- ... ust#236749" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just did mine too, new shoes and cylinders, keep clicking up the adjusters through the backplate hole until they just catch, had to do mine a couple of times so far with some driving in between, pretty good now but may need a bit more as they settle

move the teeth on the cog down to tighten same both sides, shoul pull up tight in three or four clicks so tge wheel is hard to move

handbrake switch is on the lever, its a coincidence

[CJH]

Brilliant - thanks. Yes, I was surprised the handbrake was any different from before. I'll put the balance bar back to where it was then and then keep adjusting the shoes.

[itchyfeet]

Its self adjusting as they wear but it appears that doesnt happen until they are bedded in, you need to give it a helping hand until that happens.
i was afraid of over tightening and the wheels binding but i think they soon bed in and become loose so probably tighten a click or two further than you thinks right, you can always back them off.

i went camping to france with a rubbish handbrake, not much fun.

[California Dreamin]

Hi Chris..because you don't know exactly where you are with the adjustment you need to start fresh. The main adjustment is always carried out at the drum, however, you need to ensure that the hand brake cable is 'fully released' before carrying out this adjustment as the hand brake levers on the brake shoes may not be returning fully to their stop position, as they should!
So in effect...the cable should be loose (slack) before adjusting at the shoes.

Adjust 'up' ......you hear simple 'clicks' as the paw goes naturally over the slopped teeth of the mechanism.
De adjusting......you are effectively 'going against' the designed direction of the mechanism (the flat of the tooth), so every time the paw is forced over a tooth you will hear a loud 'bong' as it jumps unnaturally over the tooth's flat side.

Only when you are happy that each side is adjusted up / backed off with the necessary clearance, do you then re-adjust the cable.
Because both shoes & drums are new, the bedding in process won't take quite as long (2 - 3 weeks), however, it will benefit you to adjust then again after 1000 - 1500 miles.

Martin

[CovKid]

I always adjust mine up just before I go for MOT

[CJH]

Thanks folks. I can easily get back to where I was with the handbrake - I counted the turns, and the threads I exposed are quite visible. So I'll start by backing that off, then adjusting up the self-adjuster as per Simon's instructions. I suspect I don't have them tight enough yet, which would explain the poor handbrake.

[California Dreamin]

As per Simon's instructions!
With the utmost of respect...I just gave and have given in the past, far more detailed explanations of adjusting brakes, so Why? 'As per Simon's instructions?
Without insulting Simon, as he knows his onions for someone so young lol, back in '85' ....when I was working as a grade one VAG technician, Simon would have been 11 or 12 years old.
Of course it's not Simon's fault that he is treated like some sort of 'demi god' on here...poor lad. this is just adjusting back brakes afterall, not rocket science.

Martin

[CJH]

...so Why? 'As per Simon's instructions?

Haha - oops, hit a nerve there. I was simply acknowledging itchy's link in his first reply to my question. If you want to achieve demi-god status you'll just have to get in with the first reply

[itchyfeet]

We need a spanneroff
two ramps one blue one red and a queue of T25s for Martin on the blue ramp, a queue of T3s for Simon on the red
Then we have three hours to see how many vans are fixed, extra points for explaining the fault to viewers with detail or humour.... viewers then vote for the mechanic god

[California Dreamin]

The above comment certainly wasn't to big up myself as there are at least a dozen people on here that I would consider have real skills is various areas:

Keith in design & fabrication
Oldiebut goodie in all things to do with heaters
metal micky on bodywork
Brickwerks/Simon general repairs/parts supply
Andy/Steve at Campershack/Gasure for LPG & repairs
G60Steve on wheels & tyres
Aidan Talbot gearbox Guru
Silverbullet brake conversions/engineering & fabrication
toomanytoys for service & repair
Bigherb for all round technical
Apologies if I have missed anyone as there are quite a few more.

My point is that there are a considerable number of highly valued opinions on here not just the one or two that count although their contributions are equally important.



No hero worshiping....too much of it on here already....

Martin

[bigherb]

As CD says the handbrake cable should always be slackened off when new shoes are fitted, then pre adjust the shoes VW give you a measurement but it is easier to adjust them so that the drum can just be fitted and making sure the shoes fit around the drum circumference this should centralise the shoes otherwise this happens if you don't pre adjust the shoes.
The trailing shoe can't self centralise because it is being pulled upwards by the direction of rotation of the drum and wears at the top.


Then final adjustment of the shoes when the drum is fitted if needed, then readjust the handbrake.

The VW measurement

[CJH]

My point is that there are a considerable number of highly valued opinions on here not just the one or two that count although their contributions are equally important.

Couldn't agree more - after a year on here I'm getting a fairly clear idea now of the large number of individuals who have valuable skills/knowledge and who are willing to share that with the rest of us. It's a proper community. But hero worship? I think you may have read too much into my post. Itchy linked to a post by Simon which seemed to give a nice succinct description of the adjustment process. I referred to that post as 'Simon's Instructions'. That's all.

Hi Chris..because you don't know exactly where you are with the adjustment you need to start fresh. The main adjustment is always carried out at the drum, however, you need to ensure that the hand brake cable is 'fully released' before carrying out this adjustment as the hand brake levers on the brake shoes may not be returning fully to their stop position, as they should!

As CD says the handbrake cable should always be slackened off when new shoes are fitted, then pre adjust the shoes VW give you a measurement but it is easier to adjust them so that the drum can just be fitted and making sure the shoes fit around the drum circumference this should centralise the shoes otherwise this happens if you don't pre adjust the shoes.
The trailing shoe can't self centralise because it is being pulled upwards by the direction of rotation of the drum and wears at the top.

Then final adjustment of the shoes when the drum is fitted if needed, then readjust the handbrake.

When I was reassembling and doing the initial adjustment, I did make sure that the handbrake handle was released, and I did tighten up the adjusters by hand until the drum was a 'light friction fit', but I think with hindsight that if the shoes weren't properly centred (and there's no way they could have been at that stage) then the light friction was probably from one edge of one shoe. I think I just didn't get the adjusters tight enough before diving in and tightening up the handbrake. And maybe that was compounded by not backing off the handbrake adjustment first.

So this evening's plan is to slacken off the handbrake balance bar to even looser than it was before I started, follow The Great Baxter's instructions (tongue firmly in cheek!) - i.e. lock the drums with the adjuster, settle the shoes with a (wooden?) mallet, tighten again till locked, then back off by 3 clicks - and then adjust the handbrake properly. Then repeat as necessary over the coming weeks.

[bigherb]

So this evening's plan is to slacken off the handbrake balance bar to even looser than it was before I started, follow The Great Baxter's instructions (tongue firmly in cheek!) - i.e. lock the drums with the adjuster, settle the shoes with a (wooden?) mallet, tighten again till locked, then back off by 3 clicks - and then adjust the handbrake properly. Then repeat as necessary over the coming weeks.

Just do it the proper way no need to dick around with lumps of wood and a hammer which you still don't know has centred the shoes.

[CJH]

OK, so making sure, by eye, that they're fitting around the drum circumference is the proper way to make sure they're centred? I can see how that ought to be the case, but I thought I'd done that already, so I guess there's room for error! Or maybe it's just that I didn't then wind the adjuster up till they locked and then back it off again by 3 clicks. Or is that not right either?

... no need to dick around with lumps of wood and a hammer ...

Good! the whole point of this exercise was to eliminate a pulsing brake pedal