Off-road vehicle recovery resource (sticky?)

[silverbullet]

Recent and rather animated exchanges re: the above have led me to the conclusion that as a club, we really could make good use of a robust resource to help make sure that we all have readily available access to proven and safe recovery techniques, using the minimum of specialist equipment and with particular relevence to UK offroading and laning.

I am thinking along the lines of recognised tutorials, published reading matter and courses (that could be attended by all for a modest fee i.e. get a qualified individual in to run the show for a day or weekend)

Dare I suggest that all submissions be vetted by the committee before being listed as "recommended"?


On a lighter note, some basic advice to set things off:

"Never clamp a bow shackle around your shaft, even if it's only for a quick tug"

[toomanytoys]

Well.. I think something is needed..
Jed and I did a demo at syncropendence last year on recovery straps.using info from what Jed had researched....
and then with the aid of Daves hi lift (and man power) and a plasma rope.. we did a winch with a hi lift demo...
Perhaps we shojld formalise it a bit better..

[poshbuggers]

I'd agree. And whether 80-90 is used as the platform or another new site it would be a great resource if vetted correctly.

I'm not even sure recovery alone should be the focus. The Syncronauts site is dead, as in it's not really interactive or engaging. Perhaps expanding it or creating a newer, more involved version would be an idea. After all, we are mainly focusing on the Syncro for offroading.

Just a suggestion.

I'm no experienced offroader but am happy to contribute by way of any design/proofreading/photo editing that would make for a clearer and easier to understand site.

[U Corsu]

Here is a nice Vid how to work with a Snatchstrap...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I use softshakels after I see one normal Type destroing the Backdoor of a Merc G Modell.

Stephan

[silverbullet]

I agree that safe recovery is only a part of it. Addressing the matter of good group management (Devon last year springs to mind, near chaos at a couple of times) would serve everyone very well. If it were delivered by an external provider at least there wont be any...er...personality clashes resulting in non-attendance or deaf ears. Just being realistic here.
Everyone needs to be safe and we all need to be thinking and working in the same way when we are out and about.
We could really do with attendees signed "best practice" document for events, at the risk of going all 'elf n safety...
I wonder if AWDC have such a thing? Bet they do.

[silverbullet]

PS When was the last time anyone can recall a safety breifing at an event?
The last one I remember was the SP where I turned up in the SA...

[Syncrobaz]

Re. vid, aren't kenetic ropes and 'snatching' with a normal rope a big no no ?????

I have been pondering the Tirfor option.

[JennyTyger]

PS When was the last time anyone can recall a safety breifing at an event?
The last one I remember was the SP where I turned up in the SA...

Sorry Ian can't let this one pass. I have attended every single fixed site event since the Syncronauts began in 2004 and I can assure there is always a safety briefing, and often induction for those new to the sites. And as Simon says above, he and Jed led a recovery demo at SP last year.

[U Corsu]

Re. vid, aren't kenetic ropes and 'snatching' with a normal rope a big no no ?????

I have been pondering the Tirfor option.

Yes, absolute no gos!

The idea behind a snatching recovery is to maximise the force from the car that pulls, thats why you build a momentum.
If you try this with a normal rope or a chain all this momentum works in a very short time, and will damage the anchorpoint on both car if you lucky.

If your luck runs out is the last thing you see in your live is a big metal part comming through your windshield...

To snatch a car is a hi dificile operation, and you can go wrong in many ways.

But sometimes you have to work quikly, espacily when your Rig is swamped and starts sinking.

Stephan

[silverbullet]

PS When was the last time anyone can recall a safety breifing at an event?
The last one I remember was the SP where I turned up in the SA...

Sorry Ian can't let this one pass. I have attended every single fixed site event since the Syncronauts began in 2004 and I can assure there is always a safety briefing, and often induction for those new to the sites. And as Simon says above, he and Jed led a recovery demo at SP last year.

Oops sorry Jenny. Must be me and my late/sporadic arrivals, or does this highlight a flaw in the system in that it is possible to miss the briefing? Would not the addition of a signed hard copy be a useful catch-all?
I do however think there is a conflict of interest in demos being led by individuals who have related wares to sell, which is why I suggested impartial 3rd parties might be a better idea.
Maybe this topic should have been titled "Event safety and training" ?

[ninja.turtle007]

Whenever I have attended Syncronauts events at a site there has always been a safety briefing and a signing in form. Exactly the same procedure as professionally organised track days at Brands Hatch etc. The only difference
being if you missed the sign in and safety briefing you could not partake in your allocated track time.

It depends on how you want to play this at Syncronauts events. Should drivers that have attended many previous meets and safety briefings be turned away because they arrive late Saturday morning and miss the scheduled safety briefing for that weekend?

I would like to see more demonstrations on recovery an driving techniques, I sadly missed the one displayed by Jed and Simon at SP.

There is nothing wrong with people doing demos with the equipment they sell, as long as it is good advice and equipment. After all the peeps from CVC were Syncronauts members way before they started selling recovery equipment etc. I'd rather support local business and friends rather than buying from another faceless internet only business.

[silverbullet]

But it shouldnt be about sellling or buying. It should be about learning how to do things safely and impartially.
St Johns Ambulance don't try and flog course attendees anything, they simply run courses that help save lives.

"Never take advice from a salesman"

[jed the spread]

Here is a nice Vid how to work with a Snatchstrap...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I use softshakels after I see one normal Type destroing the Backdoor of a Merc G Modell.

Stephan

That is a coincidence you posted that link. When Simon and I did the towing tutorial at SP this year we took all the info directly from this video. I made it very clear that this was not my knowledge and didnt try to pass it off as my knowledge and neither did Simon. We said it was from a John Rich tutorial (please check his credentials) and I had sent the video to Clive before the event. I have since met up in person with Andrew Pierre White from 4xfoum South Africa and I explained to him that we used the info from his tutorial at SP and we are towing much more safely as a result. Straps are now not joined with a shackle etc and he was very please to hear it, he even featured the Syncronauts and CVC on one of his films. Like has been said earlier we have put together a recovery kit that we can give to Club 80-90 Syncronauts and every one can use it for free. And for the record we dont have them for sale yet and are not setting them at the moment on the web shop.

Simon and I will be happy to do this again if anyone missed it and it was good to put it into practice at SP ready for the adventure we just had in Morocco.


Jed

[ninja.turtle007]

But it shouldnt be about sellling or buying. It should be about learning how to do things safely and impartially.
St Johns Ambulance don't try and flog course attendees anything, they simply run courses that help save lives.

"Never take advice from a salesman"

I partially agree.

Trust worthy salesman are few and far between. I know because this is how I make my living.

I would be much happier buying equipment that was being used in the demo. Whether that's from the demonstrators webshop or where they purchased said equipment.

When I do a St Johns Ambulance course in the next few months I will being the equipment I need from here http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk/product ... asp?cat=FK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[v-lux]

I wasn't at SP when the demo of the recovery gear was made, but i am very glad it was done. I have been very very concerned at a few events regarding the safety of some recovery situations, in fact i said to Jed while we were away in the desert that we (CVC) should donate a kit to the club and try to help provide more instruction about how to use it in an effort to increase safety.

But it shouldnt be about sellling or buying. It should be about learning how to do things safely and impartially.

I personally find this comment quite hurtful.
Jed and Simon put together that demo in an effort to stop people getting hurt. We (CVC) have put together a recovery kit specific to our vehicles to make it easier for people to get everything needed for a safe recovery, nothing more.

Nobody is being forced to purchase, it's completely up to each individual. Buy it from CVC, buy it from ebay, buy it from wherever, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that people are properly equipped and performing techniques in a safe and properly informed manner.