Power steering - EPAS

[silverbullet]

Tested. Hmm. How many k cycles for fatigue? The epas requires substantial mounting to counter the torque from the worm-drive assistance motor. These kits bolt onto the relatively thin steel of the dashboard, which was only meant to take the force available from one pair human arms hauling on the wheel.
An SVA test for each individual installation (also for any safety critical alteration) would be a good idea, more modded cars should be subject to it instead of the current"wing and a prayer" setup. Whether they would pass is another matter...
This is why the Germans have the TÜV.

[AdrianC]

This is why the Germans have the TÜV.

Don't you f'ing DARE wish that upon us... The ability to pee around with old cars is one of the main attractions this country still holds...

[syncropaddy]

This is why the Germans have the TÜV.

Not all its cracked up to be!

[silverbullet]

I know that Andrew, everyone has their tame MOT/TÜF man to squeeze things through. But after Landy man took his home-brew wagon and trailer down a railway embankment onto the track a few years back, folks feared just that.Adrian, its your neck, take whatever risks you like. Just dont crash into me

[..lee..]

You could easily apply the untested tag to any non crash tested adaption on a vehicle. To the point that some tyres just don't work on some types of vehicle. So do we all drive around in vehicles that are exactly as speced from the factory. No we don't.

For me I'm more than happy to to fit and use EPS, wheel and suspension upgrades even modified brake kits as long as they have been engineered with thought, diligence and considerable know.

Roger has manufactured more eps kits than I could count for numerous vehicles including OE production cars namely Radical.

As long as you present the modification to the potential user with both the pro's and cons and let them make their minds up. No one is forcing these mods on anyone. It's personal choice.

[jed the spread]

You could easily apply the untested tag to any non crash tested adaption on a vehicle. To the point that some tyres just don't work on some types of vehicle. So do we all drive around in vehicles that are exactly as speced from the factory. No we don't.

For me I'm more than happy to to fit and use EPS, wheel and suspension upgrades even modified brake kits as long as they have been engineered with thought, diligence and considerable know.

Roger has manufactured more eps kits than I could count for numerous vehicles including OE production cars namely Radical.

As long as you present the modification to the potential user with both the pro's and cons and let them make their minds up. No one is forcing these mods on anyone. It's personal choice.

[AdrianC]

But after Landy man took his home-brew wagon and trailer down a railway embankment onto the track a few years back, folks feared just that.

Selby? He fell asleep after a night on t'internet... Or are you thinking of a different one?

[ninja.turtle007]

But after Landy man took his home-brew wagon and trailer down a railway embankment onto the track a few years back, folks feared just that.

Selby? He fell asleep after a night on t'internet... Or are you thinking of a different one?

Or the one that happened a couple of miles from where I used to live? The landrover had mismatched brakes and had removed the ARB. Ending in the traggic deaths of his children in the river Witham near Tattershall, Lincs.

[AdrianC]

But after Landy man took his home-brew wagon and trailer down a railway embankment onto the track a few years back, folks feared just that.

Selby? He fell asleep after a night on t'internet... Or are you thinking of a different one?

Or the one that happened a couple of miles from where I used to live? The landrover had mismatched brakes and had removed the ARB. Ending in the traggic deaths of his children in the river Witham near Tattershall, Lincs.

Oh, right - that one. Well, yes, but AIUI that head of carp should have failed an MOT _badly_... "Unroadworthy" didn't begin to describe it, and that's already illegal. <quick google> Yep, the actual crash was caused by a suspension mount breaking off the chassis. On a Land-Rover. Rust, anybody?

[silverbullet]

Rust or not, the quick and relatively easy adaptation of modern car parts like these onto an old commercial platform is not a marriage made in heaven. The epas thing is rife within the classic market at the moment but most of the installations are compromised because of the reasons I have already stated.
EPAS is really a feed-in workaround technology primarily for hybrids and electric cars along with small eco cars, because without a running i.c. engine there is nothing to drive a hydraulic system.
More importantly, they are also intended to work with quite "quick" racks around 2.5 turns or even 2 turns lock to lock.
The manual T3 rack is 4.75 turns. The result is dangerously over- assisted steering as Simon has observed.
Solutions: Work out at the gym, learn to drive properly, buy a T3 with OEM pas or get a different van altogether.
Dont bodge the steering. Rant over.

[AdrianC]

EPAS is really a feed-in workaround technology primarily for hybrids and electric cars along with small eco cars, because without a running i.c. engine there is nothing to drive a hydraulic system.

I'm not sure I agree with that - it's been ubiquitous on smaller entirely-IC cars for considerably north of a decade now, hence the ease of sourcing used parts for retro-fitting. The main move to it's been for packaging reasons. No need for a pump to further over-stuff an already "busy" small engine bay, and easy to add a "girly" button to further lighten it.

Blimey - quick wiki check show Suzuki started it in the late '80s :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_stee ... ic_systems" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Solutions: Work out at the gym, learn to drive properly, buy a T3 with OEM pas or get a different van altogether.
Dont bodge the steering. Rant over.

Might not disagree with that, though...

[silverbullet]

Fair enough. No idea that it had been around for so long. No arguing that electric motors are more efficient than pumping oil around.
PS My comments about working out, driving technique etc most definitely do not apply to Pete!

[syncropaddy]

You could easily apply the untested tag to any non crash tested adaption on a vehicle. To the point that some tyres just don't work on some types of vehicle. So do we all drive around in vehicles that are exactly as speced from the factory. No we don't.

For me I'm more than happy to to fit and use EPS, wheel and suspension upgrades even modified brake kits as long as they have been engineered with thought, diligence and considerable know.

Roger has manufactured more eps kits than I could count for numerous vehicles including OE production cars namely Radical.

As long as you present the modification to the potential user with both the pro's and cons and let them make their minds up. No one is forcing these mods on anyone. It's personal choice.

I kind of agree as I like to add my own personal touches to my vehicles, however I am mindful of 'Sod's Law' and I know that if one of my 'additions' was to injure a third party, I would have some difficulty in a court of law. Experience has taught me that the legal system is designed for the people who use it and not the common man, the law and justice and not connected in any way and common sense isn't!

[PC52]

Ian, your comments are not taken personally Not just a bloke driving it though...

From the start of the thread all we wanted to know was the observations, opinions and functionality of the EPAS system. TBF a working syncro is going to be more demanding with steering as opposed to 2wd - considering some of the mischief that we do get in.

Considerations and observations - in the yellow one (PAS + electric pump) we got into so much mischief and really without pas the potential to have lost a broken thumb or whatever would of been interesting. The blue one is oem and well what can you say - Syncro + power steering + mischief + terrain = privileged.

So reflections on insurance - interesting and different experiences, maybe this should be investigated further as to the viability of the system and assurances from either insurance companies and producers of the system.
Then as Ian points out the system has been cut, welded, put together with a combination of vauxhall and VW parts, umm....

Nevertheless, sticking with the oem system can only be the real answer and on that point that's what will be doing

[PC52]

Ian, your comments are not taken personally Not just a bloke driving it though...

From the start of the thread all we wanted to know was the observations, opinions and functionality of the EPAS system. TBF a working syncro is going to be more demanding with steering as opposed to 2wd - considering some of the mischief that we do get in.

Considerations and observations - in the yellow one (PAS + electric pump) we got into so much mischief and really without pas the potential to have lost a broken thumb or whatever would of been interesting. The blue one is oem and well what can you say - Syncro + power steering + mischief + terrain = privileged.

So reflections on insurance - interesting and different experiences, maybe this should be investigated further as to the viability of the system and assurances from either insurance companies and producers of the system.
Then as Ian points out the system has been cut, welded, put together with a combination of vauxhall and VW parts, umm....

Nevertheless, sticking with the oem system can only be the real answer and on that point that's what we'll be doing