Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

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What is the state of your VC

 
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HarryMann
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Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by HarryMann »

You may E D I T/change your vote once if necessary.

Ok, and you can still make any comments by replying if required...

Original ideas thread: http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... &p=7752413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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PetenAli
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by PetenAli »

Voted - ours is good now by the way thanks to Dave Futbus and KINGPRAWN. Still use the decoupler though but I'm not going to get caught up in that one... :twisted:
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lhd
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by lhd »

I need someone to try mine as having never really driven one before i'm a little in the dark.
It seems tight pulling away in a tight turn, and seems to slow the van in very tight turns too. It doesn't get any worse after a long drive and has passed the G gear idle around on full lock(after long drive). Also diff could be turned without prop fitted although with resistance.
Problem is when you have never tried a good and a bad one, your left in the lurch.
If the new one I have is ok, I have a horrible feeling there was nothing wrong with my old one and paranoia got the best of me. :run
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HarryMann
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by HarryMann »

lhd wrote:It seems tight pulling away in a tight turn, and seems to slow the van in very tight turns too.

That's fine, normal, and to be expected (its an engineering compromise, e.g a happy balance, 90% Ok most of the time :wink: )

Yes, I'm sure there's quite a few that have replaced VCs and found the new one little different... not me though, the one that came out had no splines on it, and about a pint of honey in the front diff, maybe a bit less! The vibes were like making the wheels leave the ground at about 35 to 40 mph :roll: and she wouldn't even climb up the Coney Farm campsite slope when wet, what a difference a day made :ok
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silverbullet
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by silverbullet »

Well I'm the first to plump for option 3! Just SORN'd the bus :( so maybe time to stop being so syncro-idle and finally do a 4x2 test in the close as the "prop spanner test" is inconclusive i.e I can heave it round, but it's heavy.

The neighbours need something new to talk about now the Bullet's finally off axle stands anyway :lol:

I can also turn one wheel by hand if jacked up, albeit very slowly (a torque figure might be useful for comparison purposes or will this kick off another one?)

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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by footstuck »

Mine has the same results on the 'spanner test',
although I used the 'Long screwdriver through the yoke' test
On mine its barely possible to get any movement at the front wheel.
I guess thats because of gearing up thrrough drivetrain before torque reaches VC
Would have to know what ratio's peeps were running if a torque test was at wheel.
As to wether its going to fail in a high torque situation, all I know is mine stays locked up when called for.
I guess this could be the basis of another data quest.
Like silverbullet says, if those that can, give torque readings when cold
club meets or other testing situations would tell the tale for comparison
It would be a very simple test and a very usefull bit of research.
A socket with four bolts welded to suit diff flange, and a torque wrench
Would be quiet easy to get the wheels :rollin
If tested at the drive flange You would only be testing VC pre-load



I

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HarryMann
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by HarryMann »

I think it might be interesting, static torque, proposed it about 6 years ago or so, but having learnt a lot about VCs since then, think it may prove to be fairly irrelevant to dynamic behaviour. There might be a correlation with some low static torques and failed VCs, but that might not even be clearcut.

The static frictional torque should be very approx. between 25and 55 N~m (ish), but as I say not directly meaningful.
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by max and caddy »

Just for the sake off intrest...i had one of my rear driveshafts off the other day and had to turn the van round...diff locks off and drove just like normal..with maybe a little bit of wobble/lean on setting off, diff lock on and a bit off scrabbling on the rear wheel with drive when turning but not a lot...least i know the VC deffo works now (did anyway but hey) on the van.

odd thing is tho...my pick up felt odd when i got it and the rear diff lock lamp didnt come on...but turned out the sleeve was fitted upside down so the switch couldnt pop out its pin if you get me? and i suspect the locker was stuck on as it drove just the same as my van with a driveshaft missing! will never know now but was worried about the VC on that..now not so much.

time will tell.

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HarryMann
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by HarryMann »

Yup, hopping about over mini-roundabouts is also a good clue... Long term damage? well, can't be good for the shafts, joints, box, tyres or much else on tarmac? Have heard now several times of long term locked rears through reversed hoses or faulty wiring. Current thread on SyncroSA about one that came out of a workshop reversed or jammed on, going for compensation
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Mudlark
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by Mudlark »

My first Syncro camper was an Autosleeper high top and its VC was very stiff when hot, scrubbed and skipped it turns and convinced me it was a duffer so I put a new one in and it was as right as rain.

My old VC was donated to the DoDoka van and fitted because the existing VC had failed open. There have been no comments or complaints about the Dodoka when it was being used regarding being stiff or scrubbing or such which makes me think that VC performance is linked to the weight of the van it is in.

An aggressive vc in a camper may perform ok in a lighter van? Just saying.
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HarryMann
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by HarryMann »

Good point Mark, needed reminding that this has come up before.
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syncman1
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by syncman1 »

hi all for what its worth currently driving a doka syncro 14 (15 in ronal audi rims with 225 x 70 bridge stone at,s ) no real issues with vc, long runs hot cold parking tight turns etc, just what it should be i rekon , 6 years use up to now. well im comparing this to memory as i had a new syncro back in the eighties same model and same wheels and tyre combo,much the same i think. o also drove the original white tristar that vw use around the country as the demo bus at the time.
:) b.b

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HarryMann
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by HarryMann »

Hi b.b.

Good comparison there with a new one, not many have driven a 'NEW' Syncro, I reckon...

bet they drove nicely :ok

So, have you voted above as well ?
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by syncman1 »

ya im up there in the poll at the top.

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Syncro G
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Re: Poll: What is the state of your VC ?

Post by Syncro G »

max and caddy wrote:Just for the sake off intrest...i had one of my rear driveshafts off the other day and had to turn the van round...diff locks off and drove just like normal..with maybe a little bit of wobble/lean on setting off, diff lock on and a bit off scrabbling on the rear wheel with drive when turning but not a lot...least i know the VC deffo works now (did anyway but hey) on the van.

When I did that it was a bit like an automatic as you could engage a crawler gear (don't think I tried it in 1st), let the clutch fully up and wait as long as you like before releaseing the brakes. As it was on a steep hill and the gear was to go up it (reversing I think) it would still sit there without the brakes on and gently pull away as the revs increase.

I think that sounds about right for how it should be as its not by any means solid, definately does provide front drive off road and yet on really tight turns I find myself questioning if its a bit stiff (though with a little PAS steering wheel and a manual rack I still wouldn't call it heavy to steer, maybe its the stock rim/tyre size, maybe I'm just strong). Call it a 1 maybe slightly heading towards a 2 - I think thats probubly just syncro VC paranoia though as don't we all have that little thort in the back of our mind? (Or get scared* and decouple "just in case")

Re aplying static torque. Its interesting to note Land-Rover used such a figure in the workshop manual of Borg Warner equipped Range-Rovers
to acertain the state of the VC. Not sure how meaningful the result would have been or if it was a "if it seems a bit off replace it" aproch. When your dealer servicing a high value vehicle (as they would have been when going to the dealer) I guess billing a few hndred quid for a new VC might not have caused much offence. They were first fitted about 25 years ago and as with a syncro the genral consensus seems to be a VC is a consumable item with about a 10 year lifespan. RR diffs tend to die when abused off road so there is always the chance an older vehicle used mainly as a toy could be killing diffs from a stiff VC and just have it put down to off roading.

A friend has just had the VC changed in her 11 year old freelander and that was an interesting one. The Freelander VC is mounted on its own in the middle of the propshaft (so really easy to look at, though being a BL partsbin car probubly not as easy as it looks to remove. They also don't have matching axle ratios (havn't found out exactly what the front ratios are but it varys (earlyer ones have a bigger difference than late ones (changed because early cars tended to eat their transmissions!)). When cold setting off it felt like the handbrake was on but as it warmed up it got better. Tight turns had it trying to lock a rear wheel though. New VC and its much better. Offical opinions as to whats good and whats bad is as ever rather vague, common advice is to change it if its suspect as its cheeper than wrecking an IRD unit, rear diff and still needing a new VC - I think thats just a charictor of owning a VC equipped vehicle. Aparently according to a local garage its common for many freelander owners to run 2WD in the summer, or maybe all year if they aren't worried about snow. Its certainly not just a syncro peculearity!

* Other excuses given
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