KY 1.7 Diesel pipe from pump to no2 broken x3

Post by **wahvan** » 16 Mar 2007, 08:32

The pipe from the diesel pump to no2 has snapped three times in the last year. It's getting a bit frustrating. Anyone experienced anything similar or have any suggestions as to what I can do?

The pump seems to be mounted securely but there is obviously something wrong.

The first time it snapped I put it down to the age of the vehicle. I was in a small town in Greece and could only get hold of a pipe for no3 which I bodged into place.

This broke after about another 500km. I put that down to fatigue from where I bent it into place. Managed to get a pipe from an old Mercedes that was being used as a goat shed - which again I bent into shape.

When I got back to Athens bought a new set of pipes and replaced the lot keeping the old for spares.

Needless to say No2 snapped again I'm back to the bodged pipe from the Mercedes and wondering if there is anything I can do to stop this happening again. Apart from anything else it's bloody dangerous.

I'm not sure if this is relevant but the van has been juddering when you decelerate or only accelerate slightly (its fine when you accelerate hard). Happens in all (4) gears but most profound in the lower ones. I've been assuming that this is something to do with the gearbox seals but maybe it's connected in some way.

Any advice much appreciated,
Thanks in advance,

Tim

Post by **Horza** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:07

The pump isn't supposed to move in relation to the head, it's bolted on and anyway why would it only be number 2 if it did?

It could just be bad luck and bodging, you'd have to show us where it broke and more importantly what kind of break to start conjecturing about that.

I spose the injector doesn't move at all? Is there a chance something else in the compartment is touching it? Dead stoat stuck to the underside of the engine lid?

The judder may be gearbox or it may be engine mounts. The engine does move about a bit as standard, it may just be that you feel it more because the vibration is transferring to the body work. (that dead stoat again!)

I may have an original pipe for you next weekend, I haven't seen my 1.7 since it came out and stayed in Bristol but I have a feeling I'll be selling on all the bits that are worth owt to try and pay off the overdraft it's caused by breaking down!!

Post by **HarryMann** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:52

These are either vibration fatigue failures or you're twisting the pipe as the unions are nipped up (nipping not tightening is the order of the day with unions, as in hydraulic unions too), they're not to be wrenched tight, jst till they seal, the pipe shouldn't want to move around as its nipped unless its not entering the union exactly at right angles

Are you fitting the pipe clamping plates? these damp the vibration - don't forget the pipes have high pressure pulses every 2 revolutions, that's a good 100,000 an hour at cruising speed - per pipe!

If not then fit them, where they sit nicely, and where they don't pre-stress the pipes. The JX and CS have 3 one for all 4 pipes exiting the pump and 2 for each pair as they separate, with hard rubber mouldings between steel plates..

juddering I've been assuming that this is something to do with the gearbox seals but maybe it's connected in some way.

Nope, as Euan says, engine mounts, gearbox mounts, clutch, thrust bearing or throw out release arm that's seen better days

Post by **colinMSC** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:22

i have a 1.6 td that did simaler thing

twice .
cured by fitting clamping plate on the injector pipes , ok now

Post by **Horza** » 16 Mar 2007, 12:06

Before CJ turns up to say it, I have a set here for the 1.7

Post by **wahvan** » 16 Mar 2007, 15:22

Thanks for the offer of parts. I'm in Athens at the moment and have just been out to get two spares made up... although I might have to buy them off you if I keep going through them at this rate...

I've had the clips on on two of the three occasions its failed (could not get them on the time I bodged it). I'm just hoping we've been unlucky.

In terms of the judder. I had a look at the engine mounts and they seem in good nick (although I am not too sure what I am looking for). The gearbox mount looked ok too although it did have some horizontal play (side to side not front to back). Could this be the cause?

I'll see if I can film the judder in action this weekend in case someone can diagnose it from that.

Thanks again for all the replies, if any of you are ever in Greece I'm getting pretty clued up on all the vw breakers.

Tim

Post by **Rozzo** » 16 Mar 2007, 18:21

take it to someone who makes injector pipes and ask them to make one for you with a loop in it (like a single coil of a spring) this will absorb any vibration which is causing the crack. used this several times succesfully on big industrial stuff.
good luck

Post by **R0B** » 16 Mar 2007, 21:12

they do have the clamp on them dont they

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 16 Mar 2007, 23:15

Pipes and clamps are available from VW.
ALL pipes need to be EXACTLY the same length, making them, or getting extra bits bent in is daft.
When you can buy them over the counter more or less anywhere in the world why would you bother taking them from another car? making them?
They cost about £28, it will fit exactly, bolt straight on and do the job it's meant to.
Unequal length pipes will result in uneven running as the time it takes Diesel to go from the check valve to the injector nozzle will be longer on a longer pipe and quicker on a shorter pipe you will in effect retard or advance the injection timing respectivley, and as you know Diesel timing is a precision setting, just somewhere near is not good enough.

Post by **HarryMann** » 17 Mar 2007, 00:34

If the mounts are OK, not excessively compliant or obviously delaminated, then its your clutch, which generally one can tell by feel - that' is, whatever you do, hwoever carefully tou let it in, the clutch doesn't take up smoothly - add to the list I gave above as possibles - warped flywheel, sticky centre-plate. So when it comes apart, a good list of thinsg to look at

Post by **wahvan** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:30

Unfortunately new pipes aren't that readily available over here. I've tried every bosch diesel and vw parts shop I can find in Athens with no luck. I'll get some shipped out.

Apart from the juddering the clutch seems to work fine. Apart from checking the mounts is there anything that does not involve getting at the clutch that I can do to eliminate some of the other possibilities?

Thanks again for all the replies,

Tim

Post by **wahvan** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:50

I've just realised that my description of the problem as "juddering" might have been misleading. Its probably more like the bunny-hopping some people get when they first start learning to drive. I'll try to record it somehow to see if its consistent with a faulty clutch... Its gradually become worse in the last 5000km. Worse in reverse, gradually getting better as you go from 1st to 4th.

Tim

Post by **HarryMann** » 18 Mar 2007, 15:26

You need to get someone to wind up the transmission while you look at all the mounts, partic. the rear two main engines ones.. If its lurching up the road like that, you have a big problem.

Chock it and handbrake hard on, and get someone to let the clutch-in in 1st and Reverse whilst you watch the mounts take up.

Club 80-90 Forums

KY 1.7 Diesel pipe from pump to no2 broken x3

KY 1.7 Diesel pipe from pump to no2 broken x3

inj pipes