Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

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rollercoaster
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Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Some background..
the van (Kym the Kamper) got a lot of good work done last month, at Syncro Alchemy.
AGG 2.0 conversion from the old JX and all new gear linkages, a lot of other things too.
So fully expecting a bit of settling in and teething.
On the drive home it became apparent almost straight away that it was jumping out of fourth.
However it only took a light hold on the lever to stop that and I hope to sort it now.
The box was rebuilt not many miles ago, fairly sure it was Aidan that did it for the previous owner.
Can I have some suggestions please?
Ideally someone near me (North Dorset) who has experience and can set adjustment up,
so I can rule that out before getting all upset, deep and greasy.
Alternatively a few suggestions about what to do about it myself would be handy.
My best guess is gearbox hasn't done 10,000 miles since the full rebuild.
Hoping its an easy solution!
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by irishkeet »

rollercoaster wrote:Some background..
the van (Kym the Kamper) got a lot of good work done last month, at Syncro Alchemy.
AGG 2.0 conversion from the old JX and all new gear linkages, a lot of other things too.
So fully expecting a bit of settling in and teething.
On the drive home it became apparent almost straight away that it was jumping out of fourth.
However it only took a light hold on the lever to stop that and I hope to sort it now.
The box was rebuilt not many miles ago, fairly sure it was Aidan that did it for the previous owner.
Can I have some suggestions please?
Ideally someone near me (North Dorset) who has experience and can set adjustment up,
so I can rule that out before getting all upset, deep and greasy.
Alternatively a few suggestions about what to do about it myself would be handy.
My best guess is gearbox hasn't done 10,000 miles since the full rebuild.
Hoping its an easy solution!

Have you spoken to Russel about it?

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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Of course, he is a long way away though now!
I said I would adjust it a little and see if it gets better..
he seemed to think it was 95% likely to be the gearbox.

However as it never once jumped out before all the changes..

I am optimistic, or at least a lot more open minded.
Sure he may chip in to the conversation if he feels like it.
I have had success in the past adjusting out of a problem like this,
probably more my luck than any know how.

Had a little tinker this eve just straight on the spline a little shorter.
No benefit so put it back to as it was.

Its going for an MOT tomorrow.
I would love to have it back as a daily driver,
Missus will be delighted with the improvements.
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Aidan
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by Aidan »

I did the box probably 4 or 5 years ago
If the linkage has been worked on then I'd suspect that, could be something as simple as the boot has ridden up the cup and is acting as a spring when compressed, not uncommon, especially if it was fine for Russel on test driving it and fine when you set off - it's been fine lugging around with the JX then the AGG shouldn't make any difference at all.
Linkage isn't rocket science, you could have called in here on the way home I'd have taken a look

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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Ahh Aidan you are a gem!
I love the optimism, its made my day!
My drive through the night would not have been ideal, interrupting your sleep.
I will look at the boot tomorrow thanks.

Kym previous owners did negligible miles (after the gearbox rebuild) before selling to me,
and I pottered about for a year,
so as you say it hasn't had the wear and tear really.

Also there was a petrol leak spraying that area on the way home.
Someone (E D I T) had put petrol in the domestic water tank (!) and I had drained it I thought,
but I must have left the tap open slightly, and more came out while I drove.
This adds a another clue to what might have happened to cause it to start playing up.
Maybe.. petrol on the boot!
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by silverbullet »

The shift rod is set too long: 4th pulls the rod forward, so its not quite pulling enough to get top gear fully engaged. 2-3mm will make a huge difference, but check the position of the fork tabs to the alloy gate bar in the under-floor box: they should be central with the cut-out.

I get a few queries like this after customers have fitted a 711 shifter, it requires a precise set-up after swapping from an old pudding-stirrer.

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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Yes 2 to 3 mm is what I tried and it still jumped out,
4 0r 5 mm and it would not select 1st or 2nd so I returned to where it was.
when I drove it to the MOT garage this morning it also dropped out of 3rd!
I feel that adjustment is needed or something is loose.
I have to leave it at the garage for a while and see what he thinks.
When I get it back from the MOT he will have had a look at it.
If only I lived in Llanfyllin!
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by Aidan »

rollercoaster wrote:Yes 2 to 3 mm is what I tried and it still jumped out,
4 0r 5 mm and it would not select 1st or 2nd so I returned to where it was.
when I drove it to the MOT garage this morning it also dropped out of 3rd!
I feel that adjustment is needed or something is loose.
I have to leave it at the garage for a while and see what he thinks.
When I get it back from the MOT he will have had a look at it.
If only I lived in Llanfyllin!

your inability to select 1st and 2nd was a rotational issue not a length problem, when you adjusted the length you inadvertently rotated the two halves of the shaft relative to each other, it helps to have a 2nd person sat in the cab holding the stick when doing adjustments, see my reply in technical thread about linkage a month or so ago where I outline a simple set up method for both 5 and 4 speed (and syncro boxes) and print it off and give it to the garage - I don't think it got wikied, but there is info in wiki already

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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

I will look for that thanks,
I dont think I rotated it though as I marked it carefully first,
both the 2 and 4mm lengths differences to try, and the inline to keep it from being rotated.
Same as you I was surprised at the result!
Something is amiss. Could be up the front as Mr Bullet says.

One reason for leaving it in the MOT garage, is because I have to get to our place in Wales for a few days,
we shall take the Tristar instead and tow a trailer.

On return, if its not been sorted I shall retrieve it and follow some technical instructions/tips or whatever.
It isnt rocket science as you say, but it does have some kind of gremlin!
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Tristar AGU
Danbury AGG
 

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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Prolific poster, so a lot to trawl..

Guess this is worth copying in here again why not!

5 speed gearbox
simple 2 person set up, one person underneath, one person holding gearstick

1. loosen clamp in middle of linkage rods
2. set and hold gearstick in central position so that the gearstick downward facing fork guide tips underneath the floor are in the middle of the blocks in both planes, ie front to back and astride the blocks side to side, you can adjust the length of the whole thing with the middle joint clamp loose
3. push ball into gearbox till it stops, i.e. if you push further you are pushing against the spring in the gearbox. ball in central position i.e. in neutral
4. lock off pinch bolt and the gears will be in the correct place

the above assumes that the gearstick nylon guides are in decent condition as are the aluminium blocks the guides interface with below the gearstick and the front and rear bushes the shafts pass through are in good condition, the UJ isn't sloppy due to wear in pin holes or the trunnion, the gearstick pivot swivel is in good condition and the gearstick isn't falling through the floor and the cup and ball at the gearbox are properly mated (the cup is as high as it can be, plate holding rear bush to gearbox allows for adjustment) cup isn't full of crud but is clean with a little bit of lube in there, the ball isn't splitting due to rust on the steel part and riding up the steel arm so the steel is poking out the bottom of the ball, and the skirt on the boot covering the cup and ball is properly pulled down over the cup like you'd want your teenage daughter's dress to be when she leaves the house on a night out

This also assumes that correct linkage parts are fitted for the engine type, as is the gearbox front mount, i.e. if you have an inline 4 petrol engine fitted the diesel rear linkage parts and diesel gearbox mount are fitted not just wbx petrol linkage parts bent to fit or a wbx engine mount and or some other bodge regardless of how many people say 'I just bent it to make it work' on FB

4 speed the conditions apply (but guides under the gearstick are different) and simple method for 1 person is loosen clamp bolt, move gearstick side to side in neutral plane then loosely bungy it over to the 3rd 4th plane, ie to the right, and lock off pinch bolt. On a 4 speed gearbox the spring inside the box should fully push the selector shaft ball out of the gearbox towards the outside of the vehicle, if you find you can push the ball into the box by 7mm without any resistance then whoever rebuilt the box missed a part out, in which case pull the ball fully out and hold it there whilst locking off the central pinch bolt again ball in central position, ie in neutral

simples

Thanks Aidan,
just to be clear which applies to Syncros?
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by silverbullet »

Syncro = 4-speed as far as linkage and setup is concerned Tim

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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by Aidan »

syncro set up is the same as 4 speed, set the length in neutral as Ian said with the fork tips on the front linkage in the middle of the plate on the side of the box underneath the stick
check the mating of the cup and ball, rear bush plate mounts on front side of boss on the gearbox and can be slightly height adjusted with the bolts holding it to the boss slightly loosened, it wants to be as high as it can be generally and check the boot covering the cup and ball is fitted and pulled down, there should be about 10mm of cup uncovered on a diesel, on a petrol the cup is fully covered by the skirt of the boot, the after market boots are a bit stiff, Kym should have a genuine one on though

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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Been unable to resolve this so its found its way back to Russel at SyncroAlchemy,
and the results are back, its the deeper problem.
So box is coming out and will need an internal spruce up.
Any ideas?
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Tristar AGU
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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Its been a long time..
and Kym the Camper has been sorely missed over the summer.

The gearbox has been thoroughly restored,
and its back with Russel getting refitted.
He has also noticed some oddities with the stick and the stick bush,
a bit of bodging has been going on..

So after all that has been sorted, it may be back on the road!
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Tristar AGU
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rollercoaster
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Re: Gear Linkage or Deeper Problem?

Post by rollercoaster »

Its been back on the road a while now and had plenty of use,
its nice to travel with a bed in the back again, and a heater!
Delayed update as it needed many miles to earn my trust..
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

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