Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
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- davegsm82
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Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
The past couple of days I've been doing some work on the bus and took some interest in the fusebox.
It's well known that there's a big volt drop from front to back on vehicles with rear mounted batteries such as my Diesel, this causes dull headlights, slow wipers and slow fans.
The fuse box looks like it is intended to be fitted to other vehicles, such as those with front mounted engines (Golf etc), and as such there's a spare position (2) in the fusebox for a relay which would feed the glow plugs in these cars. The terminal on the back is marked 'N' on the diagrams (Thanks Andy Syncrosport, and Itchyfeet) and is a large (9.5mm) spade connection.
Instead of feeding power outwards, this terminal can be used to feed power BACK IN to the fusebox.
You can connect a heavy gauge wire from this terminal, and link it to the high current feed for the high-speed setting of the radiator fan. After this, install a high-current relay (such as a number 100) in position 2 then you've added a second current path to the fuse box which kicks in when the ignition is turned on.
It does NOT defeat the function of relay 8, which disconnects loads during cranking, it simply reduces the effective resistance of the cabling bringing power from the back to the front.
In practice, it's only a couple of hundred millivolts, in my example the voltage seen on an ignition feed at the back of the fuse box goes from 13.15-13.2V (fluctuating) to 13.38V. It doesn't sound like a lot, but there was a noticeable difference in the brightness of the headlamps when plugging and unplugging the relay in position 2.
It would probably be a good idea to add a fuse in the thick wire, or you could connect to the relay side of the high-speed fan fuse, which would provide adequate protection. The fuse and the cable is very over-specced, so is more than capable of feeding a few amps into the fusebox as well as running the fan.
Relay out...
Relay in...
Here's the heavy terminal...
Number 100 Relay in position 2...
Yellow Terminal on Fan Feed...
Spade terminal plugged in...
It's well known that there's a big volt drop from front to back on vehicles with rear mounted batteries such as my Diesel, this causes dull headlights, slow wipers and slow fans.
The fuse box looks like it is intended to be fitted to other vehicles, such as those with front mounted engines (Golf etc), and as such there's a spare position (2) in the fusebox for a relay which would feed the glow plugs in these cars. The terminal on the back is marked 'N' on the diagrams (Thanks Andy Syncrosport, and Itchyfeet) and is a large (9.5mm) spade connection.
Instead of feeding power outwards, this terminal can be used to feed power BACK IN to the fusebox.
You can connect a heavy gauge wire from this terminal, and link it to the high current feed for the high-speed setting of the radiator fan. After this, install a high-current relay (such as a number 100) in position 2 then you've added a second current path to the fuse box which kicks in when the ignition is turned on.
It does NOT defeat the function of relay 8, which disconnects loads during cranking, it simply reduces the effective resistance of the cabling bringing power from the back to the front.
In practice, it's only a couple of hundred millivolts, in my example the voltage seen on an ignition feed at the back of the fuse box goes from 13.15-13.2V (fluctuating) to 13.38V. It doesn't sound like a lot, but there was a noticeable difference in the brightness of the headlamps when plugging and unplugging the relay in position 2.
It would probably be a good idea to add a fuse in the thick wire, or you could connect to the relay side of the high-speed fan fuse, which would provide adequate protection. The fuse and the cable is very over-specced, so is more than capable of feeding a few amps into the fusebox as well as running the fan.
Relay out...
Relay in...
Here's the heavy terminal...
Number 100 Relay in position 2...
Yellow Terminal on Fan Feed...
Spade terminal plugged in...
'87 Devon TDi 'Lily'
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
You should see the difference this makes to your headlights!
1984 Voltswagen 25 Pop-Top (No idea what type!?) 1.9 W/C Petrol based in Guernsey, C.I.
- marlinowner
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Nice one, I used that radiator fan connection to drive my headlights when I fitted relays to take the load off the light switch.
Good to see a well used Fluke meter too!
Good to see a well used Fluke meter too!
1993 SA VW T25/T3 2.5i Microbus/homebrew camper
1981/1968 Marlin Kitcar TR6 Engine
1981/1968 Marlin Kitcar TR6 Engine
- davegsm82
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
marlinowner wrote:Nice one, I used that radiator fan connection to drive my headlights when I fitted relays to take the load off the light switch.
Good to see a well used Fluke meter too!
I recall seeing a couple of people explaining that they'd used the fan feed as a headlight feed so yea, good idea!
And yea, she's a trusty old workhorse my fluke 175, probably the only one I'd trust these days. Also the only one which still has a working LCD when it's -2 degrees centigrade.
Dave.
'87 Devon TDi 'Lily'
Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
I'm intrigued.
I have a petrol, so the setup will be different, but I am assuming here you have utilised an additional spare cable from front to rear of the van?
Just for my mind here - is it the radiator fan that has an additional cable separate to the fuse box?
I'm just trying to build a mental image of your steps. It is interesting.
I have a petrol, so the setup will be different, but I am assuming here you have utilised an additional spare cable from front to rear of the van?
Just for my mind here - is it the radiator fan that has an additional cable separate to the fuse box?
I'm just trying to build a mental image of your steps. It is interesting.
'89 1.9 DG
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
- davegsm82
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Smiffo wrote:I am assuming here you have utilised an additional spare cable from front to rear of the van?
Yes, precisely, the high speed setting of the radiator fan has it's own heavy duty cable going from the battery area to the front right next to the fuse box.
All I'm doing here is paralleling the 2 cables to reduce the amount of voltage lost in the cable run. I've not encountered a petrol fusebox so can't comment but I would be surprised if they used a different one. If you have the N terminal and the spare relay space then you should be able to utilise it.
Dave.
'87 Devon TDi 'Lily'
Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Top man Dave. I might have a peek at this myself and pencil it in on the bottom of my ever expanding list
Appreciate the quick reply..!!
Appreciate the quick reply..!!
'89 1.9 DG
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
- itchyfeet
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Battery in front of petrol under drivers seat so voltdrop to fusebox is probably not as bad as diesel.
Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
itchyfeet wrote:Battery in front of petrol under drivers seat so voltdrop to fusebox is probably not as bad as diesel.
Aye, true, but my lights are a tad dim...
So much in fact, that on a really dark rd, I can put my full beam on to see and it doesn't bother people coming the other way..!!
( Or at least no-one actually flashes me coming the other way. )
Maybe I just need to do the relay mod. Something I need to look at anyway.
'89 1.9 DG
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Battery to dash is one weakness but theres also alternator to starter motor to battery. This is why I advocate renewing the lot with heavier gauge cable throughout, covered here:
main feed:
http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/VW ... ain_cables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and here (dash):
http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/VW ... ry_to_dash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theres also a difference between early and late vehicles
main feed:
http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/VW ... ain_cables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and here (dash):
http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/VW ... ry_to_dash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theres also a difference between early and late vehicles
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.
- davegsm82
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Smiffo wrote:itchyfeet wrote:Battery in front of petrol under drivers seat so voltdrop to fusebox is probably not as bad as diesel.
Aye, true, but my lights are a tad dim...
So much in fact, that on a really dark rd, I can put my full beam on to see and it doesn't bother people coming the other way..!!
( Or at least no-one actually flashes me coming the other way. )
Maybe I just need to do the relay mod. Something I need to look at anyway.
Are you running Tungsten lamps or Halogens? (LB410 or H7). I changed my lamp units to halogens with normal 55/60W lamps and the difference was like night and day (excuse the pun). Plus I think the reflectors in the new units are a little less dusty so more light output.
'87 Devon TDi 'Lily'
Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
davegsm82 wrote:Smiffo wrote:itchyfeet wrote:Battery in front of petrol under drivers seat so voltdrop to fusebox is probably not as bad as diesel.
Aye, true, but my lights are a tad dim...
So much in fact, that on a really dark rd, I can put my full beam on to see and it doesn't bother people coming the other way..!!
( Or at least no-one actually flashes me coming the other way. )
Maybe I just need to do the relay mod. Something I need to look at anyway.
Are you running Tungsten lamps or Halogens? (LB410 or H7). I changed my lamp units to halogens with normal 55/60W lamps and the difference was like night and day (excuse the pun). Plus I think the reflectors in the new units are a little less dusty so more light output.
Believe it or not, I don't know....!
I will need to take a look and see, this thread got me thinking about it though
'89 1.9 DG
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Osram night breakers are about the best bulbs you can buy.IMO.
2.1 LPG/Petrol Auto Caravelle
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"
Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
R0B wrote:Osram night breakers are about the best bulbs you can buy.IMO.
CovKid wrote:Battery to dash is one weakness but theres also alternator to starter motor to battery. This is why I advocate renewing the lot with heavier gauge cable throughout, covered here:
main feed:
http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/VW ... ain_cables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and here (dash):
http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/VW ... ry_to_dash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theres also a difference between early and late vehicles
Cheers both - I will take a look at mine soon and work out what I need to do
'89 1.9 DG
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” ~ Mark Twain.
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Re: Need more Volts at the front of your bus?
Irishkeet just did his. I think he can see a rabbit two miles away now
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.