Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

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slowcoach
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Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

Post by slowcoach »

Hi-
Does anyone know if im able to remove the temp and fuel gauge from my early (84) KPH dash cluster (no rev counter) and replace it with an OEM rev counter, and have the new fuel and temp gauges behave correctly? (wire them up as before)? Bit confused as to how many versions of dash pods there are. I know ill feed the rev counter with a new signal from the subaru ECU once the signal is converted to a vw compatible- Im not too fond of the 3rd party little gauge pods.

Ive found a guide to replacing a whole early pod with a whole late pod here:
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/late_van_cl ... nstall.pdf
But id rather adapt what i have.
cheers!
Last edited by slowcoach on 01 Oct 2016, 11:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by marlinowner »

You will need new fuel and temp gauges to go with the tacho as they are a different size and shape to the non tacho ones, but their connections and functionality are the same, so will work fine once wired in. If your pcb is ok then you can make up fly leads to the guages which connect to the pcb with small nuts and bolts through the original pcb holes, that way it is all reversable.
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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by slowcoach »

ahh.... so the fuel and temp guages are a separate physical part, which insert into the tach gauge? didnt know that.. thanks for the info!
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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by marlinowner »

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/fuel-gauge ... odels.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Temp gauge part number is 255919511
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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by slowcoach »

Is there a list somewhere of all the dash cluster variants?

i realise they are denoted by lettered versions - "251 919 059 A" through to "251 919 059 K"

K is a diesel version, but ive not found any other details about years available, options etc. Ive searched quite a bit, and apart from discontinied parts websites, cant find anything useful :/
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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by syncroandy »

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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by CovKid »

Having done this, I discovered that early temp/fuel gauges in plain clock dial, won't fit later OEM rev counter. Design is different. You need the complete unit - with temp/fuel gauges included.

As a complete unit it'll swap straight in, although you'll need to devise something to connect to the 3-pin connector that goes to rev counter. I cut the plug off a defunct later clock membrane. Secondly, its highly likely there won't be complete loom all the way to engine bay, needed for the pulses as VW had no reason to include one on many non-rev counter vehicles. I ran a new cable alongside main loom underneath.

Petrol rev counters take time to find. Diesel fairly easy. Both are different again although some on the Samba have been able to convert one to the other although not sure whether diesel to petrol or petrol to diesel. I swapped a diesel one I had for a petrol with another 80/90 member so we were both happy but it took 8 years before the swap came up!

I too found scant information. All of the above was gleaned from getting stuck in.
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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by slowcoach »

CovKid wrote:Having done this, I discovered that early temp/fuel gauges in plain clock dial, won't fit later OEM rev counter. Design is different. You need the complete unit - with temp/fuel gauges included.

As a complete unit it'll swap straight in, although you'll need to devise something to connect to the 3-pin connector that goes to rev counter. I cut the plug off a defunct later clock membrane. Secondly, its highly likely there won't be complete loom all the way to engine bay, needed for the pulses as VW had no reason to include one on many non-rev counter vehicles. I ran a new cable alongside main loom underneath.

Petrol rev counters take time to find. Diesel fairly easy. Both are different again although some on the Samba have been able to convert one to the other although not sure whether diesel to petrol or petrol to diesel. I swapped a diesel one I had for a petrol with another 80/90 member so we were both happy but it took 8 years before the swap came up!

I too found scant information. All of the above was gleaned from getting stuck in.

thanks andy, even more part numbers? i dont think ill be chasing down a brand new one any time soon though- would that have been in storage since new then i wonder?

Covkid thanks for the info- i actually just read a post on thesamba yesterday, where someone had adapted a late tacho into an early cluster, and inserted the early temp and fuel gauge into the late tacho gauge, with some fettling. i suppose anything is possible with enough time and the willingness to cut into things and modify them irreversibly. I dont think ill need to be doing that though :)

Ive gone down the route of buying a complete late cluster (sold as early, but i suspect its a late one). It has all the functions, even lcd clock and trip meter (corrr!). its also a KPH speedo, but ive always had that so no problem for me. So it looks like ill be re-ordering the van-side 14pin multiplug to mate up with the cluster once it arrives. I can also splice in the subaru ecu tach feed (i know it needs the signal altering). After careful reading of this doc: http://www.oldvolkshome.com/late_van_cl ... nstall.pdf it sounds quite simple. he says. ill bench test the new cluster with an old 12v alarm battery to check as many things as possible things work before i hook it into the van.

if all that doesnt work, then ill have the option of going back and just lifting out the tacho and putting it into my original cluster, but since my cluster has a variety of cracked plastic (both corner lugs are completely missing) and 2 melted bulb housings, i hope to do the full swap.
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Re: Adding OEM tacho into non tacho early cluster

Post by slowcoach »

So after taking the cluster off and out of the way, it appears i do indeed have an early cluster with early wiring, including a vertical multi plug on the back of the gauge pod. this is on am 84.5 crossover van.

Image

Image

heres the plug:

Image

PIN Wire Color What It Does

1 Vacant Nothing Goes Here!
2 Brown Ground
3 White w/Blue Stripe Instrument Lighting
4 Blue w/White Stripe High Beam Indicator
5 Brown Ground
6 Yellow w/Red Stripe Coolant Temperature
NOTE: Pin 6 is Vacant on Air Cooled Models
7 Red Clock Power (If not installed, this is Vacant)
8 Purple w/Black Stripe Fuel Gauge
9 Black Main Power when Ign Switch is ON
10 Blue w/Black Stripe Oil Pressure Indicator
11 Green w/Black Stripe OXS/EGR Indicator
NOTE: On 1983 Diesels, this is for the Glow Plug Indicator and the wire is Blue w/Green Stripe
12 White w/Red Stripe Diesel (1982 Only) Glow Plug Indicator
NOTE: Pin 12 may have a wire present on Gasoline Models - it goes NOWHERE.
13 Blue Alternator Indicator
14 Blue w/Red Stripe Turn Signal Indicator

Ill swap the order of the pins in the multiplug to match the late cluster, once it arrives. sounds simple enough!! hoho
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Re: Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

Post by Smiffo »

I think CovKid is right. You probably won't have the wire in the loom from the coil to dash.
My late version had it in already, even without originally having a rev counter. ( I think it was going to BOD if I remember correctly. )

It should be a solid green wire ( again, from memory. )

E D I T - scrap that - I just remembered from initial post you are on a Subaru, so I have no idea how you are going to do this or if it is simpler LOL
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Re: Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

Post by CovKid »

No idea on the subaru bit and its hard to know exactly how VW decided what in terms of loom changes but suffice to say that before the advent of rev counters there wasn't one and even when they were installed (mostly on diesels), VW appeared not to bother on most models. It gets even more complicated with US-spec models. Its not to hard to create the link though.

What I did was run a length of 3-core cable (5amp at most) from front to back, underneath. I got mine from Wilco as it was a Sunday at the time and they were open. It also made a good deal of sense to have the two extra lines in case I ever needed to connect any other low-consumption item (especially sensors) from front to back in the future. VW were always very conservative (if not minimalist), both in quantity and capacity when it came to looms but demands on them were minimal back then. I've since had to upgrade most of it as I run a 90amp alternator and like most 30+ year old T25s, corrosion of cables was quite evident.

I would think, being a boxer engine, coupling the rev counter should be dead easy if the subura has a coil. Since fitting the rev counter I very rarely look at it now except if I need to rev up for a coolant bleed but its been useful in terms of seeing just how much welly I was giving it at times.
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Re: Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

Post by slowcoach »

I've already got the tach feed straight from the Forrester ECU up to the dash, so should be set really. Need to convert it from the square wave signal to a vw compatible pulse, which rjes sells a unit for. I know there's a resistor mod too, but I don't want to screw things up for myself, so will pay for the unit (£25).

New cluster arrived too! May be a few weeks till I match it into the van though, as need it on the road for jobs!

Image
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Re: Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

Post by slowcoach »

Image

Just been doing a few fixes on the cluster, new bulbs, fasteners etc.

Can anyone advise if a liquid trace pen / conductive paint pen would be suitable for this kind of thing? ie dolling up the contact areas.

The worn pin above is 5 LCD clock power. No idea why that one would be more worn than others..
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Re: Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

Post by slowcoach »

Image

I painted on some silver conductive paint a while back, thinking it'd help. Last night I checked it out with the multimeter... The stuff seems to have quite high resistance... 50ohms or so in some places :-( dohh! I think it was better without. I'll have to try and rub it down. a***.
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Re: Dash Pod Cluster swap from Early to Late

Post by slowcoach »

during my dash board out job, ive finally goot round to swapping in the late dash pod from this thread. I re-ordered the 14pin multiplug using the 'Old Volks Home' pdf guide so that it matches a late van (opening the catch on the connector and one by one, pulling out and re-inserting the pegs into different slots), and hooked in the late cluster. If anyone wants any help with that just ask. i just printed and read the guide many times, made my own notes, and got stuck in, knowing i could reverse the woring back to fit my older early cluster.

it all works except the high beam indicator, so ill look into some help with that. its an MOT fail i believe?

anyway, having a n lcd clock is nice noveltly, ive got the tacho now but need to splice in the feed from the rjes subaru loom extension which is simple, but ajob for another day :ok
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