intermittent starter issue

[bobswais]

Hi there, have a problem with starter, following symptoms..

1. sounds like it was not engaging ?

2. or engaged but sounded like not enough power to start.

3. if does not start only has one click sound after turning key.

4.or starts on the button !

could main cause be the bush that needs changing in the bell housing?

after tidying wiring, checking battery, the bush seem to be the one thing i cant check ? unless there is a relay fitted somewhere that i dont know or have not seen ? some models have a HOT start ?

is there a quick way to tell if you have that or not ?

all the lights stay bright etc when turning key and battery tester shows good holding charge for battery.

just one thud sound when turning key either holding on or just a quick turn. everything seems to click and unclick, or it tuns and starts great with really good cranking speed.

all advice's gladly accepted?

[AndysT25]

Sounds like I have the same issue. Sometimes when I try to start engine turn ignition and just get a click. Try again and it turns over, sometimes just another click. Usually starts after few tries. Do have the hot start relay installed by previous owner, not sure if this has something to do with it or perhaps attempt to fix issue.

[CovKid]

Worn starter motor brushes a possibility. They can be replaced at home (about £7) but you need a whopping soldering iron as two are soldered to part of the case. Bad connection at trigger wire, poor connections generally including battery terminals, and slow turning possibly bush.

[Bubble Meister]

Yep. And me...

[bobswais]

cheers guys, trigger wire, thats the small one with the blade terminal i assume ? ,if so i just put a new spade on it. battery terminals are all good and wiring all in good condition that end. wiring on starter motor all trimmed cleaned and new wires attached .

starting to think it really is the bush.....

[CovKid]

If its the bush its a cheap though fiddly fix. If its not that you'll be down to solenoid or brushes. I would suspect brushes. You can either try to replace them (as I say, £7) or spend a ridiculous amount of money for a rebuilt one.

[bobswais]

cheers...will do the bush and try a starter motor refurb.... whats the connecetion for painting your van for 50quid and a darts selling website ?

[CovKid]

Just known 9Dart for a lot of years.

[bobswais]

good enough reason ! longevity is good.

well got the starter changed and new bush fitted. used the method with M12 tap to screw out and made up bolt with nyloc to put back. ( 10mins ) once you know how...

but still have electrical electrical issue...

1.turn key....one solid click and as starter engages. but does not spin.
2. every now and again starts straight away. and will do several times then reverts back to step one

new starter is 200% better than the old one so problem partial solved.

have been cleaning earths and changing connectors to bright shiny new ones nothing seems to change. have changed every relay in the front end.
I cant find a standalone relay anywhere that might be a Hot Start one from a add on kit.

baring in mind 1.9 DG what is the relay inside the electrical box in the engine compartment for ? Its the only electrical area i have not looked at yet and not sure if it could be part of the starter circuit somehow ?

as always thanks for help and advices

[California Dreamin]

More checks.....perhaps if you could get someone to start the van and measure the voltage at the main starter post on the solenoid (10.5 absolute minimum) also..which earths have you cleaned. The main culprit is the short braided cable on the gearbox nose cone. A second earth cable is often helpful (from starter bolt 10mm eyelet, to chassis 8mm eyelet chassis leg on the offside) there is at least one suitable hole already threre, you just need to clean around the hole back to bare metal.
Lastly....have you noticed any difference 'wiggling' the key....ignition switch often fail (under a tenner to buy) but require the removal of the steering wheel and steering lock housing.

What's your starter battery capacity, is starting the same after an over night charge?

Martin

[bobswais]

Cheers Martin, tried the wiggle on the key, in fact I took the housing off around key and hot wired switch with no improvement , so think key is ok, will go back underneath and check the gearbox earth. Will fit second earth and see how that goes and check battery voltage starter. But stater has very positive clunk. I have been checking battery with load tester and battery is in vgc. Not loosing charge over night. I do have battery isolation switch and I always flick that off when van parked up. So no drain occurring. Will see what happens in the morning ! Thanks for advices ..

[California Dreamin]

Its more of a heavy discharge check (Drop Test) some batteries appear to have a good standing charge 12.6 volts plus, but when put under heavy load (140 amps) the voltage quickly drops below an acceptable threshold...I think the normal drop testers are 15 seconds @ 10.5 volts or more.

The other biggie...which if you've had your starter to bits you will have checked..is the short copper braided wire between the solenoid and starter body. These corrode and turn to dust.

Martin

[bobswais]

Hi Martin,

thanks for the pointers

My battery tester has manual hold to load the battery, and even after 20s the battery recovers strong, not sure the load it applies but it gets very hot as it heats the element in the tester. its only a analogue display but doesn't seem to go under 10.5 11 volts when on load.

The old starter, was in a poor state when it came out , braiding didn't look to clever....terminals all looking in sorry state but new one has taken care of any issues there. Any snug new bush fitted to bellhousing.

Just need to get under van and check those earths... that will be tonight now !

If the earth strap from the gearbox was bad or disconnected would the solenoid still work as that is ok every time. ?

[CovKid]

Yes it would although without a really good earth, the starting circuit (ie when you attempt to turn it over) would be pee poor.

[bobswais]

well could not find my volt meter.... so changed battery to known fully charged battery ( almost new ) and looked good on load tester. attached second earth cable from braided lug on starter motor to chassis all with clean terminals, and cleaned sand back and checked gearbox earth strap reattached.

all that then the rain came..... and no improvement,

a co-worker of mine listened it to try to start, and made a comment something along the lines of it sound like the engine may not be at rest at TDC ? engine not in the correct spot to help start the van. and suggested rocking it to start.but that didn't make any difference either.