Crankshaft End Play Question

[maxstu]

Prepping an early 1.9 DG as a temporary replacement while rebuilding my DJ 2.1.
Pulley end, lve re-inserted the oil thrower washer and knocked in small crank seal. Then lightly tightened the three belt pulley (for PAS and waterpump). My neighbour is coming round with a special rattle gun to nip it up.
At the other end l am at the point of setting crankshaft end play. So far, without crank seal, with a used flexplate, and bolts lightly tightened (originally a manual/flywheel engine) l can't get the correct end play.
Without any shims end play is .72mm. With two shims only (.28mm each) equals .56mm. That still leaves .16mm. Still out of specification at .10-.15mm. Or is that good enough? Or is something wrong here?
Can l use just two shims instead of specified three? I have some .30 and .32mm shims. So l could use two totalling .62mm. Or is something very amiss!!!
Your views please.
Regards
Stuart

[ajsimmo]

Have you test fitted the shims and measured the resulting endfloat, or is it done just by calculation? The reality might be a bit tighter, and the plate should be well tightened down, not just nipped. It might all help get rid of that pesky 0.01mm for you. If not, it'll be just fine at that if it's just a donkey engine whilst you build another. Many engines I receive are still running fine with much more endfloat than that. Better a bit more than not enough!

Sent from my moto g(30) using Tapatalk

[maxstu]

Thanks for the informative reply, AJ. That is reassuring to read.
I tested with two shims in place at .28 each.
Will run two shims and let out a bit of end play. Perhaps around .14 to .18mm so not to put pressure on the bearing.
Regards
Stuart

[ajsimmo]

I've never tried just two shims, I'm wary that VW advise caution to always install three.

Something seems amiss to have so little float to start with. On a late if too tight I'd remove the thrust washer and dress a little bit off it to make it spot on. On an early you don't have that option. Is the end of the crank ok? Or is there damage on the thrust face of the drive plate?

Sent from my moto g(30) using Tapatalk

[maxstu]

Thanks again.

Will go back to basics and investigate. Might even pull new crank pulley seal and make sure the oil thrower washer is true and clean.

Ive read on The Samba forum and GoWesty site that three shims are not necessary. It was VW way of making cases and then taking up the "slack" for use of a better word, when fitting the crank. Just as long a the specification tolerance is kept around 0.10mm to 0.14mm. This applies when fitting a new flywheel/flex plate, apparently. Im using a secondhand flex plate from another unknown engine.

[Donald360]

Reading this with interest as I'm just about to be in a similar position, having removed the flywheel and leaky oil seal on my 1985 1.9DG.

Any advice on where to source shims and shim retainer? Brickwerks and JK are both out of stock. Another question for me is, should I replace the thrust bearing at the same time or just leave alone?

Cheers
Donald

[maxstu]

Reading this with interest as I'm just about to be in a similar position, having removed the flywheel and leaky oil seal on my 1985 1.9DG.

Any advice on where to source shims and shim retainer? Brickwerks and JK are both out of stock. Another question for me is, should I replace the thrust bearing at the same time or just leave alone?

Cheers
Donald

Hi Donald,
Is your engine an early type with only a single oil pressure switch by pushrod tubes? If yes, then no shim retainer needed...l think.
It is fitted to later twin oil pressure switched engines though.

[maxstu]

Right. Removed pulley and flexplate again. Checked the thrower washer was sitting correctly behind new crank seal. Cleaned all associated mating surfaces with a piece of scotchbrite. Wiped all down with a clean cloth. Then had a chat with my neighbour. Fortunately he's a mechanic and an Aircooled VW fan. He suggested checking end play again with pulley fully tightened and flex plate torqued to spec. This seemed feasible. Unlike the flywheel a flex plate...er, well, it flexes!
Moments later he appears with the biggest Snap-on rattle gun in existance and whips up the pulley.
I set up the flexplate and gauge. And hey presto! We have end play sorted with three shims.

[maxstu]

Undid the plate again. Added a new crank seal....made a mess of the first attempt. Luckily had a spare. More success fitting that. And no need to recess seal slightly on an auto.
New rubber oring seal fitted inside of flexplate. Touch of oil here and there. And back on the crank it goes, and tightened to torque spec. Rechecked the end play. All good. So rotated the crank 720 and no binding or unusual noises.
Thanks to all for your help.

[ajsimmo]

the plate should be well tightened down, not just nipped.

Why do you say the oil seal doesn't need to be installed the same as a manual? Not an opinion I've heard before...

Sent from my moto g(30) using Tapatalk

[Donald360]

Hi Maxstu
Yes, early type with only one oil pressure sensor. I will fit shims without the retainer ring. I'll be double checking but my initial calculation is getting 0.45 with just two shims, so I will add a third shim of 0.35 or as close to that as I can get. They seem to be out of stock on Brickwerks and JK at the moment. I think I can re-use one of the old shims together with two new ones to get within the Haynes manual tolerances.
Donald

[maxstu]

the plate should be well tightened down, not just nipped.

Why do you say the oil seal doesn't need to be installed the same as a manual? Not an opinion I've heard before...

Sent from my moto g(30) using Tapatalk

I watched a video by Boston Bob. In the video he suggests knocking the large crank seal just beyond the engine case, using the old seal as a drift, on the manual version. Yet going flush for autos is acceptable.
Will look it up now and report back.

[maxstu]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v7lpH4TDA7M

Two thickness seals with same part numbers apparently. 10mm and 12mm. 10 and 12mm okay for autos. But 10mm seal best for manual gearbox version, and slightly countersunk, so not to interfere with flywheel?
Also different torque spec for flex plate. 81lbs for the flywheel. 66lbs for the flexplate.

Regards, and l appreciate your help.
Stuart

[ajsimmo]

I'd not seen that video before. A couple of interesting parallels with the way I do things, which is strangely reassuring .
For example, I have a curved, sickle-like sharp deburring tool which I use to take off the sharp edge of the case before fitting the seal. I use an old DG piston as my drift for knocking the seal just below flush (although he knocks it much deeper than I do). I too have bags of used shims and mix n match to get the perfect endfloat, and it can take 4 or 5 goes to get the DTI to agree with the theory. I'm not convinced about the flush seal for an auto. I recess them all (depending on any grooving on the sealing face, of course). One major difference is I can't now think in "thou", it's metric all the way. I hate using old micrometers using stoneage units.

Sent from my moto g(30) using Tapatalk

[maxstu]

Well bless my soul! A perfect fit. Next time, for sure.
I keep in mind one inch equals 25mm. Then calculate down or up. So 001 thou is .025mm. Therefore 005 is .0125...it think!