Oilite starter bush - looking for an explanation....

[Bigface]

Hi all, 
Having had the GB and flywheel off to replace a crank seal/reshim the endfloat and now rebuilt I'm now just getting a 'click' on turning the key - The earths all got cleaned up, as did the starter mating face, and I think I'm OK with how to approach it in terms of slaving in new cables etc.....
Trawling the forum keeps bringing up 'replace/check the oilite starter bush' and I've got one on order, no problem, not questioning anyone's advice here - but what I can't work out is why a 60p fragile bush would stop the starter from engaging/make it slow to turn over.

If it fixes it then great - I just like to know how it's fixed. Anyone?

[maxstu]

A moot point. Some say it act as an earthing point for the starter. Others say it's just a support bush for starter.
I would begin by checking battery strength, earth strap on gearbox to chassis and cables to starter motor solenoid.

[Mocki]

It’s a support bearing , it supports the end of the pinion shaft in the bell housing and if it’s not replaced with the starter , or is worn it will "trap" the starter and restrict or stop the pinion spinning freely

They must be soaked in engine oil for 24hours prior to installation .

This is how brickwerks describe it

Oilyte bush for all T3 petrol engined starter motors.

Often the cause of misdiagnosis of faulty starter motor.

New bush should be left to soak in engine oil for 24 prior to fitting to prime the bush, no further maintenance needed.

Old ones if still intact can be removed with a M12 tap, simply screw in, wiggle and extract.

New bush to be tapped home lightly with a suitable drift.

[Bigface]

OK, thanks all - bush didn't seem in bad shape, but replaced it anyway - and still the van won't turn over. I'm trying not to commit to a starter motor replacement because I really don't think it's that - so as I've tried everything I can think of I'm hoping the hive mind can give me a steer.....

What I know so far:
1. I've replaced the oilite bush.
2. The resistance from the starter bolt to the chassis is 0.2ohms, but I tried starting it with a jump lead from the bottom starter bolt to the chassis anyway - no change.
3. The engine turns over freely by hand.
4. The solenoid is clicking on 'ignition on'.
5. Battery voltage = 12.6V, I tried it with a portable jump starter anyway, no change.
6. With ignition off there is no voltage at the 13mm solenoid stud, measured between the stud and chassis - (is there supposed to be a permanent 12V there?). With ignition on it goes up to about 0.5 volts. This would indicate an issue (to me) with the main battery-to-solenoid cable - when I substituted a jump lead there I got a half arsed attempt from the starter to turn it over then nothing. So a change of sorts, not really much improvement.
7. Prior to having the GB off for a crank seal replacement it turned over fine.

So that's it - now I'm lost, anyone any ideas?
 

[maxstu]

You didnt mention gearbox earth strap?

[maxstu]

Furthermore, the solenoid wire could be damaged. And the face of the starter, where it bolts to bellhouse, is the earthing point. Remove starter and scrub up both mating surfaces.
I cant recall if solenoid is permanent live.

[Bigface]

Apologies maxstu - I've been checking a lot of things! - 

Gearbox earth strap is good, removed as part of GB removal, cleaned and refitted, resistance between GB body and chassis earth is 0.1 ohms. I 'slaved' in a jump lead there to fully rule it out, no change. 

Both starter and GB mounting faces have been cleaned up, wire brush, brake cleaner etc. I'm pretty confident I've done all the right things earthing wise, still happy to be corrected though.

An update though - Solenoid spade connection is getting 12V with ignition on, hence the solenoid clunking. 0V at all other times. I shorted the ignition switch just to rule it out, no change.

There is NO cable from the battery direct to the solenoid. The 13mm solenoid stud (0V or close to at all times) is connected (red wire) to the alternator. The same point on the alternator has a cable that runs round the engine bay and appears to terminate on a stud in a black box on the fwd left bulkhead. This box contains a white relay marked '1'?

This is as far as I've got.........

[Bigface]

This is starting to sound like it belongs in Electrical……

[Forden341]

There is 2 13mm spanner sized studs on the solenoid. The load side is a braided cable into the starter motor itself but the feed side should have a 6.0mm csa cable to the alternator and a 25mm csa cable to the battery. Sounds like the big cable may be flapping around somewhere, not good as this is permanently 12v and unfused-find it asap or you could have a short and a serious problem.

[Mocki]

Ok, so back to basics …….

Your alternator connects to the starter solenoid , onto the same bolt as the main power lead from your battery under your seat ( we know it’s there, you have power from the ignition switch to the tigger connection on the solenoid ) so, please confirm you have two thick wires onto the solenoid, one from the alternator , and one from the battery , and that there is 12v ( ish) at this point .

If not check the other big cable hasn’t been tucked up out of the way behind a coolant pipe ( it’s been done before, ask me how I know )

[Bigface]

Thanks everybody -

I’ll have another root around tomorrow and report back.

Cheers.

[Forden341]

I’d disconnect the battery before you do or it’ll be like fireworks night under there

[Bigface]

Just ran out and done it.

[Bigface]

So 2 things I've learnt today - 

1. I really need to pay more attention or take more photos when I'm disconnecting things, especially when they're not getting re-connected for a period of weeks, and
2. I should consider myself pretty lucky considering the live from the battery was loose and tucked up against a coolant pipe - good shout Mocki and Forden341.

Thanks everybody for your input - now on to the next problem!

[Forden341]

Does it start now?!?