5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

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captain Byrne
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5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by captain Byrne »

Thought I'd change the gear oil as it hadn't been done for about 20K & I was getting a slight crunch going from 1st to 2nd. I know this is an issue with these boxes so it didn't bother me that much, plus it only happened on the first couple of changes when cold & was generally ok after that. However, after reading a thread about what oil to use I went for Smith & Allen fully synthetic EP 75w-90, but since then it's been significantly worse and I now have to be extremely careful with the initial 1st to 2nd changes which feel a lot more delicate than prior to the oil change. I couldn't check the magnet when doing the change as the numpty who made my exhaust piped it right across the drain plug so I had to pump it out. There were a few small nuggets in the bowl afterwards but nothing significant and I'm at a loss as to why it's worse now than before. Ideas appreciated!
1983 LHD Westfalia poptop 1.9 DG petrol.

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by maxstu »

I've always had good results with mineral 80W 90 GL4 or GL5 grade?
What amount did you add?
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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by ZsZ »

I had best shifting results with Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75W-90. As I can see now BP phased it out, they claim the CASTROL TRANSMAX MANUAL TRANSAXLE 75W-90 is the new name. 
E D I T:
found this old thread:
viewtopic.php?t=156518
Aidan also recommended the VW 501.50 spec which the Castrol has.
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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by captain Byrne »

maxstu wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 07:13 What amount did you add?
Difficult to say but 3.5 litres came out but as it was sucked out there's no way of knowing how much was left in. When filling I did what most do which was to fill until it overflowed & I guess just shy of 4 litres went in. I could drain 0.5 litre & add a tube of molyslip?
 
1983 LHD Westfalia poptop 1.9 DG petrol.

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by Arripay »

Added a tube of Molyslip after an oil change, I think it helped a bit, I only get a slight catch rather than a crunch.
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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by captain Byrne »

Been reading one or two threads about quantity - some fill slightly below the line, others level. Is there a rule of thumb & does this affect baulking from 1st to 2nd?
1983 LHD Westfalia poptop 1.9 DG petrol.

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by Aidan »

VW reduced the fill on the petrol boxes to 3 litres, apparently in order to reduce the baulking (and maybe reduce any weeping from the breather hole when parked on steep down hill), but as this also reduces the oil at the crown and pinion I tend to say to put 4 litres in regardless of the engine type, but of course you can only put a measured 4 litres into the box when completely empty, eg when new or rebuilt, this corresponds to below the overflow level but hard to give an exact below the hole measurement and equally difficult to measure it, I know from experience 4 litres in a rebuilt box in a Syncro is just touchable with my bent left little finger, but everyones finger will be different.
If you can't access the drainplug you are extracting even less than when draining normally as the differential end is the low point so difficult to gauge how much to put back in except by measuring what came out, and I'd rather have too much lube than too little. I would be more worried about not being able to drain the box properly and see the drainplug magnet in order to gauge wear levels or see debris attached. 
It's difficult to give absolute advice especially with people running alternative engines and mixing mounts and linkages and the like, plenty running diesel engines in originally petrol vans and vice versa now and not always changing all the parts that vary between the two original installations.
 

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by captain Byrne »

Thanks Aiden. If my box is filled to the point of overflowing at the fill plug, & given VW reduced the fill to 3L to reduce baulking, how much in your opinion do you think I could extract in order to 'possibly' improve the baulking issue?
1983 LHD Westfalia poptop 1.9 DG petrol.

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

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Aidan
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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

Aden? :lol:
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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by Aidan »

Oldiebut goodie wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 22:11 Aden? :lol:
:cry:
so 70s a misspelling, you are showing your age

re the oil level maybe try removing 500ml and see if it changes anything, whatever you are comfortable with, like I say I'd rather have a bit more oil in and I have 4 litres in my petrol (scooby) 4 speed and the baulking is only the first shift of the day till the oil is flung around the box and moving and by the time you get to the next junction and pull away again all is fine and I don't have to be measured in the 1st to 2nd shift, but on a more worn box it maybe more noticeable as the pinion shaft may be moving slightly to and fro as you are on/off the power, that's why I recommend being able to gauge the wear using the magnet, sludgy stem is the box saying there is wear in the big bearings...

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by captain Byrne »

Thanks Aidan,
I'll take out 0.5L & see how it goes. Like you say - ideally I need to get the drain plug out to have a look at the magnet, but without remomoving the exhaust there's no way I can get to it.

Image- we'll see.
1983 LHD Westfalia poptop 1.9 DG petrol.

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by Aidan »

what exhaust is that ?
I do have a super short tool that can be turned with a spanner and fits between small car exhaust and plug, needs about an inch total gap as that is the threaded length on the plug

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by captain Byrne »

Aidan wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 17:19 what exhaust is that ?
I do have a super short tool that can be turned with a spanner and fits between small car exhaust and plug, needs about an inch total gap as that is the threaded length on the plug
Very good question - it's stainless steel custom made by Pro-Speed in Cardiff. It's a great exhaust but they could have routed it a tad better. Anyway, there's probably about an inch gap so I could get it out with that tool you describe. Is it something I can buy or should I get a grinder to a normal plug key?
1983 LHD Westfalia poptop 1.9 DG petrol.

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Re: 5 Speed box, 1st to 2nd issues

Post by Aidan »

either cut down an existing tool, like the one with 1/2" one end and 17mm hex the other or buy a length of 17mm hex and cut length to suit, maybe 2 a longer one to get started and a super short one just long enough for once it is loose that won't stop you getting it out with the spanner still on
17mm hex bar on ebay

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