1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

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ManicGTI
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1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by ManicGTI »

Ok, so I know there's a million 'cutting out' posts on here so apologies for adding another one - I couldn't find one that was the same!

Symptoms:   Sat in stop-go traffic on M25, after driving for a while (so everything nice and warm), engine cut out on me with no warning.  It turned over and started, but died straight away each time.  Van had been running fine up until this point, plenty of fuel in the tank.

After about 20-30 mins (after I had called recovery), it started fine again!  Rather than run the risk of breaking down again I got recovered to home.

A similar thing happened to me a few weeks ago, I stopped in a layby and let it sit idling while I tinkered with the seats.  After 5 mins or so it died, and just wouldn't start again.  After a unknown period of time it suddenly fired up like nothing had happened.

'Feels' like a fuel issue to me, but given it's seeming randomness I'm a bit of a loss where to start?

Any thoughts welcome!  

David


Random thoughts on the van for info (in case relavant):
- Dizzy, plugs and leads replaced by previous owner a few mo ago.  Messy install with blade connectors instead of JPT so will sort this soon.  
- Voltage across the alternator when running is about 13.7, not amazing but I believe is ok (?).
- There is a switch under dash tidy that appears to kill running of the van.  I assume was installed as a security device, but I have no clue what circuit it kills.

- My coolant temp gauge isn't working after I've installed the SLC dash repair loom. May have already been dead before I fitted the loom but will remove and check it over for anything obvious - shorting the sensor at the fusebox implies it's a dead gauge.

In general I like to fully service cars when I first get them but haven't completely done on on the van yet:
- Have changed Air filter and belts. 
- Fuel filter 'looks' newish (it's still shiney...), but i'll change as a precaution.
- Oil, filter, coolant not yet changed.
1990 - EJ251 - 5sp AAP - 'Weekender'

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maxstu
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by maxstu »

In which area do you live? I also own a DJ with PAS and ABS...

New E10 fuel perhaps? Or are you running Super. Mine is suffering same symptoms. Fine when driving though.


Get the gauge sorted and make sure fan is cutting in. Without a gauge why would sit stationary with engine idling for five minutes. It could be overheating.

Do you have a workshop manual for factory specifications?

Many different electronics control the idle. However l would start at sparking plugs and work backwards.

For starter...

Check plug quality, colour and gap. 0.07mm. There are some crappy russian made plugs about.
Check resistance on leads. About 2k Ohms per foot.
Check cap and rotor for wear or excessive carbon.
Check coil readings
Check timing. 5 or 10 BTDC?

Temp 2 sensor in thermostat housing plays a part too.

And the list continues....
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by T3luestar »

I think the "switch under dash tidy that appears to kill running of the van", needs investigating to.

ManicGTI
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by ManicGTI »

Hey Matstu, thanks for the pointers.  I'm based in SW London.

I'll check over the ignition system, I believe it's all less than a few months old - there's a very recent receipt dizzy replacement and the leads/plugs look new.    I don't suppose you could take a snap of the dizzy you have?  The connector on mine looks like a bit of a hack job (they've glued some blade connectors together...) so would be good to confirm they've fitted correct part before I sort out the loom bodge.

I did top up (only about half a tank on top of e5) with e10 before this journey.  But I just can't see it being that tbh.

Yes, agreed sorting the coolant gauge is a priority, but I've seen no other symptoms of cooking the coolant (fan kicks in and cuts out as expected, implying coolant temp is reacting as expected).  No sign of coolant dumping from the cap.  I've got a VDO gauge set  (Coolant temp, Oil temp, Oil pressure) I'll be fitting soon as well to cover the health of the runny bits. 

Just found the 'vanagon syndrome' Wiki which is depressing me a little as there's just so many unknowns on there which are a massive pain  to diagnose.  Down the rabbit hole I go.  I have a feeling this is going to be a painful thing to resolve, I hate intermittent faults, it's running so nicely otherwise!

Does this mythical 'vanagon syndrome' MFA loom that gets mentioned around the web apply to the 2.1DJ or just the MVs?

I'll admit I'm new to vans but not to the 80s VW fold, I've had a few Mk1 Golfs, the last one being an '83 GTI running a 2.0 16V conversion.   Spark side seems similar, however they were running K-Jet for injection.
1990 - EJ251 - 5sp AAP - 'Weekender'

ManicGTI
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by ManicGTI »

T3luestar wrote: 14 Sep 2021, 09:29 I think the "switch under dash tidy that appears to kill running of the van", needs investigating to.

Agreed, i'm assuming it's a pump cut off at the moment, will need to trace it back and get rid.
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maxstu
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by maxstu »

ManicGTI wrote: 14 Sep 2021, 10:14
T3luestar wrote: 14 Sep 2021, 09:29 I think the "switch under dash tidy that appears to kill running of the van", needs investigating to.

Agreed, i'm assuming it's a pump cut off at the moment, will need to trace it back and get rid.

Easy test. Ignition on and test voltage coming out of coil cable. Flick switch and test voltage again.
Or at the fuel pump. Double connector in engine bay behind air filter box. Green/brown and white.
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maxstu
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by maxstu »

ManicGTI wrote: 14 Sep 2021, 10:11

I'll check over the ignition system, I believe it's all less than a few months old - there's a very recent receipt dizzy replacement and the leads/plugs look new.    I don't suppose you could take a snap of the dizzy you have?  The connector on mine looks like a bit of a hack job (they've glued some blade connectors together...) so would be good to confirm they've fitted correct part before I sort out the loom bodge.

Not with van. Can post later.

Is the distributor genuine VW? Check the code number on the body. 025 905 205
Late DJ end in N.

Do you mean the small rubber black connector on side of dizzy. If so, that plays a very important part in the ignition system. Its part of the Hall sender.
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maxstu
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by maxstu »

Not sure it vanagon syndrome. That tends to happen at any speed and not only at idle.
Also check the tightness of the vacuum pipes from distributor to plenum. Very important to be leak free.
MaxStu
1989 DJ 2.1 Auto Leisuredrive rusty bucket.
"Blissfully happy in your presence".

ManicGTI
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by ManicGTI »

maxstu wrote: 14 Sep 2021, 10:52
ManicGTI wrote: 14 Sep 2021, 10:11

I'll check over the ignition system, I believe it's all less than a few months old - there's a very recent receipt dizzy replacement and the leads/plugs look new.    I don't suppose you could take a snap of the dizzy you have?  The connector on mine looks like a bit of a hack job (they've glued some blade connectors together...) so would be good to confirm they've fitted correct part before I sort out the loom bodge.

Not with van. Can post later.

Is the distributor genuine VW? Check the code number on the body. 025 905 205
Late DJ end in N.

Do you mean the small rubber black connector on side of dizzy. If so, that plays a very important part in the ignition system. Its part of the Hall sender.
Thanks,

Just popped out to take a look, it looks like a generic aftermarket replacement to me (blue plastic hall plug), no obvious part numbers.   Like one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133338452867 ... 1f0b975383

I cried a bit on closer inspection.  When I bought it I had thought they had used spades on the dizzy pins (probably due to knackered loom plug), but actually they seem to have hacked the connector up.   Looking at various rebuild threads online, it's likely that they have cut it back to reveal decent connections (they do seem solid...despite what it looks like).  That said...to do vaguely credible fault finding I'll clean it up and take a better look!

Hoping I can get away with rebuilding with a decent replacement hall sensor from Brickwerks or similar rather than source a complete new distributor.  Worst case in the meantime I could just clean this one down and solder in pigtails to connect each of the three wires separately.

Image Image

:|

 
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maxstu
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by maxstu »

Now that is nasty! :shock:

How it should look...

Image

And vacuum pipes from vacuum chamber on side of distributor to fuel regulator and underside of plenum

Image
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

Effing heck! What a lash up. I see things like that on heater looms and wonder what goes through peoples minds to get results as bad as that.
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by T3luestar »

They haven't even trimmed the cable tie! :o

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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

That is so bad that I cannot stop looking at it.
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1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by DoubleOSeven »

Some dizzy’s only come with the ‘early’ blue oval 3-pin plug on them. As you have a ‘late’ van, the mating connector from the loom facing the coil would be a square 3-pin socket and won’t fit. Possible reason for the hatchet job.

Early
Image
Late
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Conversion kit
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1990 Volkswagen Transporter 2.1 Manual
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Re: 1990 - 2.1 DJ WBX - Cutting out, but infrequently

Post by Stesaw »

Yikes, that's an impressive bodge.
1985 LeisureDrive 2.1DJ 5 Speed syncro conversion project.
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