So this happened on Friday evening

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steveo9007
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So this happened on Friday evening

Post by steveo9007 »

Well loss of power all of a sudden and then engine stopped :shock:  but was able to safely get out of the middle lane, yes the middle lane :rofl of the motorway on to the hard shoulder. Once recovered home, and had a sleep the next day on close inspection i saw this..

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Then i decide to strip it down to just leave the old belt on, as i am going to have to renew the lower and top cam cover casing aswell as the belt has gone through and cut it up a little. 

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At this stage i am trying to get all parts in TDC position so i can put the cam lock in and pump lock in, however on closer inspection and some help from m8, and due to the fact that the belt has jumped and put everything out of alignment, its not possible as when the tdc indicator comes into view through the gearbox, the cams are not in correct position nor is the pump, so i am having to put them in place individually and have fingers crossed that i have done it correctly.

You might ask how this has happened, well firstly i have no history on the cam belt so could be original one on since engine, i have 64K on the clock so should have probably changed it at 60K.  I am hoping its the belt that has stretched and cause the jumping of teeth and for the belt to run off and start shredding, my only saving luck is that it didn't snap causing the valves to smash into the piston heads. I will post more pics of the rebuild as i go along if people are interested, as there isn't a lot of info on the KY engine out there.  Im taking all my info from the Bentley Manual on the 1.6D which are similar.
1985 RHD Pop Top Autosleeper, 1.7D KY Engine 4 Speed ALD Gearbox (Bertie)

colinthefox
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by colinthefox »

Well done for not having a major catastrophe there.

It looks like either your Injection pump pulley or the tensioner have been running out of true. I've had this kind of tensioner failure from trying to re-use one with a new cam belt many years ago. (I ended up with a strip of cambelt about 1/4 inch wide!) The pump pulley can do it if the bearing is worn, or the whole pump is not straight, like when the pump has been rotated to adjust the timing.

You could try testing the alignment by putting a straight edge across the pump and the tensioner pulleys, but the edges of the pulleys aren't quite in line so it's difficult to tell sometimes.

 
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steveo9007
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

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Ok will do, i have the belt and new tensioner coming from Brickwerks hopefully will get them on Wednesday.  :shock:  I have looked around the pump and it doesn't seem like it has moved as in no fresh marks and i haven't done anything with the pump at all in regards to setting the timing of it..
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Oldiebut goodie
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

Tensioner seized possibility?
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200hp T6
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Cecil
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by Cecil »

Belt too old possibly.

davidoft1
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by davidoft1 »

I would say that’s just a very old belt, for the cam of fuel pump pulleys to run out of true something would have to be half falling off

But don’t run it without the bottom pulley on as that holds the belt on

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steveo9007
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

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davidoft1 wrote: 31 Aug 2020, 07:47 I would say that’s just a very old belt, for the cam of fuel pump pulleys to run out of true something would have to be half falling off

But don’t run it without the bottom pulley on as that holds the belt on
Yes i am hoping this is an old belt, all the wheels look solid and i cant see any signs of movement, i will have a better look when the old belt is removed and see if any play in either of the pulleys, will also inspect tensioner aswell to see if damage has occurred, i do have a new one to replace though which i believe should be done on every cam belt. Just gotta hope Brickwerks can get my order out tomorrow.
 
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TomLeighton
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by TomLeighton »

As someone who just had to buy a new engine*, can I give a bit of advice?!

If you are making any changes to the cam shaft, and need to undo the cam shaft bolt please get a new one. It only costs £4-5 and will save you a lot of heartache.

If the tension isn't right or the bolt has been reused it may cause hot start issues, and even snap. As happened with my van.

Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs and you already know this. I didn't, but I wish I had! So just in case.

*Thankfully the garage that didn't put in new stretch bolts are paying for the new engine, but who wants to go through that hassle?

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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by steveo9007 »

TomLeighton wrote: 02 Sep 2020, 14:43 As someone who just had to buy a new engine*, can I give a bit of advice?!

If you are making any changes to the cam shaft, and need to undo the cam shaft bolt please get a new one. It only costs £4-5 and will save you a lot of heartache.

If the tension isn't right or the bolt has been reused it may cause hot start issues, and even snap. As happened with my van.

Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs and you already know this. I didn't, but I wish I had! So just in case.

*Thankfully the garage that didn't put in new stretch bolts are paying for the new engine, but who wants to go through that hassle?

I will only be undoing the camshaft pulley bolt by a half a turn so I can make the pulley wheel rotate free so I can make the tension correct as per the manual. No other bolt is being released. So I should be ok.
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

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So update on this, parts came today courtesy of Brickwerks, thank you for sending so quick.  Put it all together and got the timing bang on, all went well and engine fired and turned over no problems. I have to recheck it tomorrow as i haven't put the cam belt in the right place on the pulleys and its to far over, so will strip back down tomorrow morning and adjust.  But so far so good, no play in any of the pulleys neither, did notice though that the tensioner wasn't tight so maybe this was my problem and went loose allowing the belt to run not under tension.  :ok
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

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Ok, further on for this, i am having issues where the cam belt keeps running out to the edge of the Injection Pump pulley and then to the edge on the IP Pulley wheel which will if i keep it this way keep rubbing and then start to rip up the edge of the cam belt. I have removed it all and am now questioning the injection pump pulley wheel, there is a lot of movement in the wheel in and out, see video below.



I have spoken to my m8 who is a mechanic and he says there should be no movement in/out as this will cause the pulley wheel to wobble and not be centre keeping the belt in correct position. Anybody got thought on this ???
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

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colinthefox wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 20:39 It looks like either your Injection pump pulley or the tensioner have been running out of true. The pump pulley can do it if the bearing is worn.
There's your problem then. I'm afraid the pump will need rebuilding by a diesel specialist, which is expensive, or you'll have to get a replacement. This was probably caused by the belt being too tight originally. If the engine's OK otherwise, that's relatively good news. You can see from your original photos that the belt has been climbing off the adjuster.
 
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by steveo9007 »

colinthefox wrote: 03 Sep 2020, 14:29
colinthefox wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 20:39 It looks like either your Injection pump pulley or the tensioner have been running out of true. The pump pulley can do it if the bearing is worn.
There's your problem then. I'm afraid the pump will need rebuilding by a diesel specialist, which is expensive, or you'll have to get a replacement. This was probably caused by the belt being too tight originally. If the engine's OK otherwise, that's relatively good news. You can see from your original photos that the belt has been climbing off the adjuster.

Yep, just managed to source a second hand one, its the same one that was fitted to the 1.6CS engine aswell so should be good to go once i get it. 
 
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

Post by colinthefox »

My last reply may not be quite right. Looking at your video again it seems like the movement may be only axial along the line of the shaft. Is there any play up and down in the pulley as in "worn bearing" which could let the pulley run at an angle? Have you checked the alignment of the pump. If the belt is consistently running off to one side then either the adjuster or the pump pulley must be out of true. The crank, and both cam pulleys are not really capable of this, as pointed out earlier by Davidoft1.
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Re: So this happened on Friday evening

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colinthefox wrote: 03 Sep 2020, 14:42 My last reply may not be quite right. Looking at your video again it seems like the movement may be only axial along the line of the shaft. Is there any play up and down in the pulley as in "worn bearing" which could let the pulley run at an angle? Have you checked the alignment of the pump. If the belt is consistently running off to one side then either the adjuster or the pump pulley must be out of true. The crank, and both cam pulleys are not really capable of this, as pointed out earlier by Davidoft1.
Yes i can move the pulley in/out and up and down
 
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