A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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ajsimmo
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by ajsimmo »

Great news on the cam test fit. Looking good!
Glad it's as smooth as it should have been, as it was your original gear refitted, but with a new crank gear
Those new gears do need a bit of extra heat (certainly above the book 80°!) to get them to fit.
As for torquing the rod bolts, I can't see anything in Bentley, or VW manuals saying no to a click type torque wrench - that's for the head nuts AFAICS.
The stretch rod bolts are simply 30Nm, followed by 180°. They're very short, are done with the contact faces oiled so very little stiction, and they're new threads and nuts which turn smoothly, so no apparent reason not to use click wrench. However, I use a digital version with a beep for greater accuracy. I would recommend an angle torque gauge, but you can use tippex. Just ensure it's done in one or max of two smooth actions, not jerking it a few degrees at a time! And once angle torqued, you CANNOT undo them again, so get this right first time. In particular, check your rods are fitted the right way up!

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

Yeah I had thought about using tipex to gauge the 180 degrees of turn. Maybe it would be best to torque them to the 30 then use a breaker bar to get one smooth half turn. The small mouldings go on the tops if I do recall reading. I'm more interested in how the pins will fit the rods IE if they are too tight or too loose.
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by ajsimmo »

Stesaw wrote:Yeah I had thought about using tipex to gauge the 180 degrees of turn. Maybe it would be best to torque them to the 30 then use a breaker bar to get one smooth half turn. The small mouldings go on the tops if I do recall reading. I'm more interested in how the pins will fit the rods IE if they are too tight or too loose.
The gudgeon pins? They'll be right. The new rod little end bushes are factory reamed to a very fine tolerance, and the pins rarely wear significantly. They'll most likely be a nice smooth sliding fit with next to no rock.

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

Well I had planned on doing those today, but got waylaid by other jobs.

I read somewhere (probably on here) that if you oil the gudgeon pins, fit them into the rods and hold the rod so the gudgeon pin is vertical it should stay put. But if it falls out then might need swapping, as they are new rods with new bearings I'd go right to replacing pins if anything came up as an issue.

 
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

So today did a bit more, removed the crank to fit the rods and also removed the cam so I could clean the case a bit more.
I noticed when I took the cam out that the bearing shells with tang that needed to be removed from one side came with it.. so I checked it and found there was a bit of a bump where the tang was so spend about 5 mins gently filing it a couple of times at a time, checking to make sure I wasn't taking any material off that I wasn't supposed to be and then filing more. I was happy when I could run my nail along it without it catching where the tang was and with the ol mk1 eyeball that it was the same as the rest of the bearing surface. I measured up the shell as well to make sure it was the right size, came up as 28mm which if I recall is bang on. I think

ImageSo on with the rods wiped them down a bit more after separating them to get rid of any wax left. Apologies for lack of pictures on fitment. Did one at a time making sure the halves were in the same orientation as when I took them apart, IE numbers stamped on the rod and cap are on the same end. Also making sure those little casting bumps you can see on the rods would be all facing the top of the engine once in. When tightening the nuts oh err missus I alternated between then two to make sure I didn't pinch anything, only on at 30nm right now as I needed to get some tipex to do the 180 turn. There was one thing that concerned me however, when they were all tightened up I span them because why not. 1,2 and 3 sounded fine, no play or anything but 4 (number 2 rod?) was a bit rattly, oh dear I thought. I got the feelers out and measured up. The side wear limit is .7mm I could only get a .35 in there so that was OK. I checked the rest and they also were well within spec.
The journals were measured up and checked to 55mm so they were OK, hmm I thought did I leave a shell half out by accident or something?? had a look on the bench, nope! hmm.. so I thought I'd get the oil can out and squirt some oil into the crank hole on the no 1 bearing and around the rod, span it slowly a few times and it seemed to sort itself out, It spins freely so nothing is binding. Is that something I should be concerned about or was it lack of lube?

I also got the lifters out as I had a tub of new oil I might as well get them filled up.
Boy what a job that was. Oil everywhere! When I got the new lifters for the 1.9 they didn't really need bleeding but these were spongey so I took them apart and filled them up with oil, depressed the ball so the air could get out and then put the end on and into the vice with a cut down old push rod that was far to bent to be reused.

The first one went just fine, got the clip on and back into the oil bath sat vertically. The second, well it was my fault. When I had cut down the push rod I failed to file it flat, so when I was tightening it in the vice it slipped and the lifter shot off into low earth orbit out of the garage and went right into the front of the syncro. Luckily the lifter was fine so I filed down the rod flat where I had cut it.. :roll:.
After that it was just messy and slippery, my gloves gave out so I resorted to just my hands as I was fed up of the slip and slide. In the end they were all done as light was fading. Went in home for a long shower.

Tomorrow off to pick up some more cleaning stuff. I thought I had some 1200 wet and dry and some paraffin knocking around for the mating surfaces on the case halves but I don't.  :roll:


 
 
Last edited by Stesaw on 19 Mar 2021, 14:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »


Here is what I mean with the rods 4 just sounds noisy when you spin it, the rest don't. Problem?
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

Head studs going in, the helicoil ones seemed a bit wobbly til they were tight. The rest I am taking my time with. Just hope the helicoiled ones aren't sitting too deep in the case. 
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by maxstu »

No comments on the noisy conrod, then? That is strange? Where's the normal charge of the help brigade?
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

I'm sure they have more things to do other than mentor this pleb  :lol:. Maybe I am being paranoid about it but as it sounds off I'd just like a second opinion. 

Just had some lunch so I might go and pop the rod off and check to make sure it's clean in there (it should be) and measure the journal again to be sure. 
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

Well I made an executive decision to finish the rods up. First checked the rod again, after putting more oil though it, it has sorted itself out so maybe I didn't put enough on in the first place when fitting it and it was running dry.

All the rod nuts have been tightened the extra 180, so no going back for those bolts. Did a final clean of the case halves on the mating surfaces.
Remembered to install the thrust washer on the crank this time behind the bearing next to the flywheel. 
Cam and Crank are in, not coming out again. Just have to wait for the sealant and gasket kit to put the case together for good.
Also fitted the oil cooler, oil pump with plate and oil filter just to fill holes where crap could get in, taped up everything else like the breather and dip stick hole.
Not sure if I should invest in new nuts/washers or just clean the old ones up.

One thing I do need to check next are the valves on the heads. When cleaning them I did pour in cleaner into the exhausts and intakes, let it sit and there were no leaks from the valves so they are seated OK, but even so might check and clean them up a bit either way. 

I guess now I can focus on cleaning bits up. I intend to reuse all the pipes for now til I can spend a bit more on shiney stainless steel jobbies.
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by ajsimmo »

Sorry, I meant to comment on the video, but my ferry was pulling in and I forgot to come back to it! I meant to say I'd have that rod off and check there wasn't a shell half missing. Then I'd swap it with the one next to it to see if the problem moved. I know none of this helps now the bolts are stretched, but I'm here now so I'm gonna say it anyway
I always give the conrod end cap a few gentle taps with a toffee hammer either side when fitted loosely, just to help seat them. It seems to help them sit snug and square. Then I tighten them down.
Yours look quite loose, and fall very freely. They should drop more slowly when first assembled. I use a thick sticky assembly lube though, so that will have an effect. Do yours fall more slowly now they're tight?

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

ajsimmo wrote: 20 Mar 2021, 08:10 Sorry, I meant to comment on the video, but my ferry was pulling in and I forgot to come back to it! I meant to say I'd have that rod off and check there wasn't a shell half missing. Then I'd swap it with the one next to it to see if the problem moved. I know none of this helps now the bolts are stretched, but I'm here now so I'm gonna say it anyway Image
I always give the conrod end cap a few gentle taps with a toffee hammer either side when fitted loosely, just to help seat them. It seems to help them sit snug and square. Then I tighten them down.
Yours look quite loose, and fall very freely. They should drop more slowly when first assembled. I use a thick sticky assembly lube though, so that will have an effect. Do yours fall more slowly now they're tight?

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Eh, well it's done now so will see what happens I guess! Not gonna be buying another set of rods just for the bolts! I did use a lot of oil to lube them so maybe that's why they spin as free as they do. Funnily enough I do have some of the thick assembly lube which I used on the bearings before putting the cam and crank into the case (had to clean up the cam.) Got some new camshield paste for the lobes /lifters.

I will check to see how free they spin. But I guess it is what it is now.
 
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