Improving airflow in the engine room

[luter82]

Hi guys,
I'm a happy (sort of) owner of a T25 from 1980, 2 liter Aircooled.
I was wondering if it would be possible to improve airflow in the engine area and cooling with the aid of 12V computer fans.

The first modification I would do is to add two 12V fans on the sides of the engine where the air comes in. Vertically of horizontally, but in that area. Would it be a good idea? I know that German engineers have designed the airflow in such a way that making modifications is not always a good idea, but to me this seems a good improvement.

The other modification I would want to do is to fit a fan attached to the oil cooler so that the cooler could get rid of the heat faster. The only problem with this is that plastic fans are not an option as that area can become quite hot (unless I find an area with a bit of clearance). I kind of struggle to find metal 12V fans that could handle the heat of that area.

Anyway let me know if some of you have already done something like this.
Thank you

Ricky

[Dazco]

Are you experiencing any problems with overheating? If not I would suggest leaving as it is.
If it is overheating probably be best to get to the root cause .

[Mocki]

The amount of air flow from computer fans wouldn’t make any difference to engine cooling , especially when travelling .
Spend your money on tin wear seals and oil changes !

[Mr Bean]

The amount of air flow from computer fans wouldn’t make any difference to engine cooling , especially when travelling .

Yes I did more less all of that in virtual ignorance when I first acquired my van and having insufficient funds for a proper rebuild got about more two years out of what was for all intents and purposes a clapped out engine - including trips into Europe. I am not recommending this but here it is for entertainment/amusement of some of the more prissy members. Incidentally the fans only came in when in stop/start traffic as planned.

Not realising the WBX had what looks in retrospect like an afterthought built in oil heater/cooler, I fitted a proprietary oil cooler into a rectangular aperture which I cut in the rear panel to the right of the number plate connected to a sandwich type take off between the oil filter and what I later discovered was the existing oil heater/cooler then mounted two circa 120 x 120 mm 12V plastic PC fans behind the cooler element controlled by a clamp on thermostat in the hot oil feed line. The plastic fans didn't melt as it happens. The setup remained in situ for the entire life of the 2008 "Esssex" rebuild up until it expired recently. It remains in place although not connected.

Don't try this at home children

[Mocki]

But the OP is air cooled.....

[Mr Bean]

OK you got me there. Looking again at the post I guess I just took in the "cooled " word and of course naturally stuck water in front of it.
Lucky for the world I don't drive a Jumbo jet or work in a fireworks factory.
Or run a government for that matter

E D I T:
Come to think of it I did run an air cooled machine for a while when a mates lad took over the management of a Citroën dealership and gave me a Visa Club II out of embarrassment Never embarrassed me though for nothing I Really loved that little five door well appointed pocket rocket. Used to get on the motorway and floor it all the way to Dorset at speeds of up to 80 MPH depending on the wind and gradient. Only stopped on me twice - once when the oil cooler burst and sprayed the whole car with oil upon which I slipped when getting out and nearly got run over. And another time when I drove through some flood water and got an instant sauna when the water got into the heating system and steam filled the car. That was a boxer too . Loved the simplicity of it were it not for all that tin work...

[luter82]

OK you got me there. Looking again at the post I guess I just took in the "cooled " word and of course naturally stuck water in front of it.
Lucky for the world I don't drive a Jumbo jet or work in a fireworks factory.
Or run a government for that matter

E D I T:
Come to think of it I did run an air cooled machine for a while when a mates lad took over the management of a Citroën dealership and gave me a Visa Club II out of embarrassment Never embarrassed me though for nothing I Really loved that little five door well appointed pocket rocket. Used to get on the motorway and floor it all the way to Dorset at speeds of up to 80 MPH depending on the wind and gradient. Only stopped on me twice - once when the oil cooler burst and sprayed the whole car with oil upon which I slipped when getting out and nearly got run over. And another time when I drove through some flood water and got an instant sauna when the water got into the heating system and steam filled the car. That was a boxer too . Loved the simplicity of it were it not for all that tin work...

Eheheh you had some good adventures with it I can see...Quite surprised the oil cooler burst...never heard that.
Well yeas I love the simplicity of it as well and the fact that anyone can fix it, although that doesn't mean you can fix it properly as it happens that you need to know well these engines to be able to fix it properly.
For example there was a mechanic that claimed he was very experienced with these engines and in fact he was, however he knew the Beetle engines not much this 2 liters from 1980. He didn't know that this engine has hydraulic lifters and does not need to adjust the valves every now and then. So we kept adjusting the valves for no reason for a long time until we realized.

[luter82]

Are you experiencing any problems with overheating? If not I would suggest leaving as it is.
If it is overheating probably be best to get to the root cause .

No, but I am just only concerned for hot climates. I'm planning to travel from UK to Australia with it and I'm sure I will find some hot climates in the way

[luter82]

The amount of air flow from computer fans wouldn’t make any difference to engine cooling , especially when travelling .
Spend your money on tin wear seals and oil changes !

I have rebuilt the engine recently so I am not concerned in the near future, but since I am going to travel to Australia I am trying to plan ahead.
When I rebuilt the engine the mechanic in Vancouver told me that a good way to cool better is to add an additional oil cooler. So instead of adding a cooler, I thought it would be beneficial to add a fan that would make more efficient the one I have. After all in theory it should work. It works for computers and it's exactly the same setup as the oil cooler appears to be a heatsink as well.

What do you mean by tin wear seals, these? https://www.justkampers.com/251-813-226 ... -1983.html

[Dazco]

I drove from uk to Istanbul, ( and back) turkey a good few years ago and I remember the temperature being 40+ for a good few days on the trot, this was in an older 1973 T2 1600 air cooled and it performed faultlessly.
In my opinion , having an oil cooler ie small radiator type thing is not the same ( in principle) as adding a small computer fan. That's almost like saying in principle a jet engine is like a computer fan , it's got vanes and it goes round . Hardly the same.
An additional oil cooler . Tucked out of harm's way and in a foow of air should work well.

[lefty67]

The best thing for keeping air cooled cool is by making sure your tin ware is complete, the engine is clean especially the fins underneath and regular ie 3k miles/6mths oil and filter changes.

[luter82]

I drove from uk to Istanbul, ( and back) turkey a good few years ago and I remember the temperature being 40+ for a good few days on the trot, this was in an older 1973 T2 1600 air cooled and it performed faultlessly.
In my opinion , having an oil cooler ie small radiator type thing is not the same ( in principle) as adding a small computer fan. That's almost like saying in principle a jet engine is like a computer fan , it's got vanes and it goes round . Hardly the same.
An additional oil cooler . Tucked out of harm's way and in a foow of air should work well.

Hi Dazco,
Maybe I have not explained myself well. This is how the oil cooler looks like: https://images.app.goo.gl/aDT87NR1AJeirTnSA
The fan would go directly on the little holes of the oil cooler heatsink. That's the same principle of a CPU cooler.

The idea is that this oil cooler by design is not directly in contact with undisturbed airflow, plus the airflow is not that much, because if you wanted to have the best results you'd have to put the cooler way below anything else and that's not possible for obvious clearance reasons. Plus the fan would provide forced air into the system. which is what efficient cooling systems have (forced air).

The only real question here is, would the oil pressure be enough to exchange hot oil fast enough for the fan to cool it. That is to say, that maybe the fan would cool something that is already cool enough. I am in the process to buy a thermal camera, so I will probably let you know the difference.
One thing is for sure, the fan would help by far the cooling when the van is stationary. I remind that this van has no whatsoever fan or radiating system by default.
Surely an additional oil cooler would be the best, but it's also a much more difficult and costly job.

[luter82]

The best thing for keeping air cooled cool is by making sure your tin ware is complete, the engine is clean especially the fins underneath and regular ie 3k miles/6mths oil and filter changes.

Hi Lefty,
does it make a different if the engine fins are clean?
 

[AngeloEvs]

My brother and his girlfriend drove an Aircooled VW T2 to Australia via Europe, India, Thailand, back in the late '60's.      They had a number of various breakdowns, clutch, gearbox, etc but overheating was not a problem.  Fortunately, the VW was well catered for regards repairs and spares but whether that still applies to day for older VW's I cannot say.    

[luter82]

My brother and his girlfriend drove an Aircooled VW T2 to Australia via Europe, India, Thailand, back in the late '60's.      They had a number of various breakdowns, clutch, gearbox, etc but overheating was not a problem.  Fortunately, the VW was well catered for regards repairs and spares but whether that still applies to day for older VW's I cannot say.    

So no engine breakdown? Did they come back to UK with the van? That looks amazing. I might want to talk to your brother at some point

We just came back last year from a 12 month road trip with the mentioned van. Starting from Washington DC, US, to Alaska and then down to Panama keeping on the west coast. We rebuilt the engine and changed the transmission in Vancouver. We had serious problems with altitude in Mexico as it is a huge plateau of roughly 2000 meters and the oil pressure simply couldn't cope. That was definitely more of an issue than overheating. Going up the mountain, stressing the engine, with no substantial airflow, plus the oil pressure wasn't helping. I guess it was a combination of factors, but again I am of the humble opinion that a fan could help also in those occasions. No harm giving a try with some cable ties
Ah I forgot to mention that the van is automatic transmission.
You can see some pics of the trip in here if you wanted: https://www.instagram.com/vanfuncooled/
We've also got a youtube channel, but no videos yet: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuizRo ... cVFagMIrxQ