T25 5-speed gearbox

[BobbyOrbit]

Hi. We just had our T25 fitted with a reconditioned 1.6 diesel engine. We took the opportunity to also fit a 5-speed gearbox. The old engine was a 1.9TD 4-speed.

When we got him back, the new gearbox set-up was such that first was engaged through the gate and round the corner (like reverse, but down not up). Second was where first would normally be etc. This is awkward to drive with, especially in central London where we live! The garage says it's how these were built at the time, but also that it's a typical racing set up!

Can anyone shed any light on whether this is indeed a standard, albeit weird, set-up? Or are the garage at fault?

Thanks,

Robert

[T3luestar]

Yes, that's a standard 5 speed box set up.

[T3luestar]

[lefty67]

As said that's right. I might be doing this wrong but I only use 1st as a crawler or hill start gear. I use 2nd for all other starting.

[muttleypup]

Was the gear stick/linkage changed to the 5-speed setup when the gearbox was swapped? If not this is no doubt why it's a pig to drive as the 'gate' is different on a 4-speed, so it'll work but it's not ideal. If it was changed then it's just a case of getting used to it, it'll become second nature in no time

[Titus A Duxass]

Was the gear stick/linkage changed to the 5-speed setup when the gearbox was swapped? If not this is no doubt why it's a pig to drive as the 'gate' is different on a 4-speed, so it'll work but it's not ideal. If it was changed then it's just a case of getting used to it, it'll become second nature in no time

^^^WHS^^^

[Aidan]

yes the 5 speed gearstick is completely different to the 4 speed one, different stick and different box underneath with different guides, a spring detent built into the stick, a different front linkage rod, and the gearbox has one less component in the selector shaft set up so it doesn't default to the 4th 5th plane you actually move it there and they are often a bit floppy, stirring porridge type set up. You only have to push down after moving the stick left to go under a gate to select reverse; you are having to go under the old 4 speed gate to select 1st as you have a 4 speed stick and linkage.

The racing heritage is James May "Balls", it's a dog leg box because it's basically a modified 4 speed where they added a gear using the selector for reverse which was only moving in one direction but could move in the opposite direction too so they slapped in an extra gear at the front of the box and made the box a couple of inches longer. They then had to design a gearstick and linkage to make up for the cheapskate design. After the 80s all 5 speed boxes were designed from scratch as 5 speeds from the off, and then when diesel engines couldn't rev high and needed a 6th gear they added the extra gear to the 5th selector which up until then was only moving in one direction but could move both ways.

You can pull away in 2nd if rolling or on the level but don't just treat it like a 4 speed all the time as 2nd is a good bit taller gear than 4 speed 1st and you will wear the gear and main shaft if you do it all the time and use the torque to pull away, especially cold, or heavy van like a full camper, the state of most of the main shafts and 2nd gears I see now is awful and new to replace best part of £700 for those two parts alone.

[slowcoach]

You can pull away in 2nd if rolling or on the level but don't just treat it like a 4 speed all the time as 2nd is a good bit taller gear than 4 speed 1st and you will wear the gear and main shaft if you do it all the time and use the torque to pull away, especially cold, or heavy van like a full camper, the state of most of the main shafts and 2nd gears I see now is awful and new to replace best part of £700 for those two parts alone.

Yikes. God information thanks Aidan. I do use 1st everytime on my 5 speed, but it's a right pain and heave.. I don't know what it's meant to be like, but I've checked out my linkage parts they look in reasonable shape.

With gear changes being one of the points of direct interaction with the van (steering wheel,pedals the others), it really does effect the 'feel' of driving one of these things. As most on here, I've never driven another one to get any comparison :-\

[Mr Bean]

Yes I'll second all of that. This is exacerbated in my case by the fact that my run around Focus has what some might say is the proper layout. So the first few miles in the camper is often accompanied by the odd crunch and expletive.
After many years of driving my five speed T25 I still find slow speed stopping and start driving awkward, physically tiring and out of sync with other traffic due to having to virtually come to a halt in order to select first only to have to change up literally seconds later. This does not suit my ex London driving style in any way whatever and yes maybe four speed or an automatic would be better.
I have generally refrained from pulling away in second in the van fearing the clutch would wear prematurely but am pleased to receive Aidan's advice on the deleterious effect on the actual gearbox.

[BobbyOrbit]

Thanks all for the very helpful comments. I believe the garage put in a whole new gearbox and selector, so I guess I just need to get used to the unwieldy shift into and out of first.

Merry Xmas!

Robert