Rear brake seized

Post by **Cruzer** » 03 Mar 2019, 10:23

Hi all,

I’m currently struggeling with my rear brake (T25 Atlantic, Jx, 2WD). I drove approximately 5 miles with my handbrake pulled (handbrake warning light not working, this is now fixed).
After another drive without handbrake pulled, I heard a squeaking noise and went back to my place. The n/s brake was warm/hot. I ordered a full brake kit ( drums, springs, shoes, cylinder and flexible part of the brake line). However I cannot remove the n/s drum, it just does not move freely. Adjuster is retracted, handbrake cable is losened at the adjuster under the van. I can move the wheel with lots of force, but that’s all, not spinning as it should.
I tried to avoid opening the 46mm nut, but potentially I will have to renew the grease or the complete wheel bearing now due to overheating anyway?

Any suggestions on how to get the drums off without causing more damage?

Thanks in advance!
Tobias

Post by **clift_d** » 03 Mar 2019, 10:31

You don't need to remove the hub nut to remove the brake drum and get at the cylinder / shoes etc.

If the drum feels loose but won't come free then it is catching on the shoes. If it feels like it's attached to the hub, then a few taps with a club hammer around the rim of the brake drum should break any corrosion holding it in place and allow you to remove it.

Post by **bigherb** » 03 Mar 2019, 11:17

The adjusters are definitely backed right off by clicking the pawl upwards?
Then try undoing the bleed nipple it may be a collapsed flexi hose holding residual pressure.
Otherwise, it may be a seized wheel cylinder try levering the shoe back through the lining inspection hole.
Always remove the 46mm nut, drum & hub when overhauling the brakes why struggle trying to fit everything with the hub in place.
Try pulling the drum and turning at the same time as though you are trying to unscrew the drum over the shoes.

Post by **Cruzer** » 03 Mar 2019, 12:17

Hi, thanks for your replies.

The adjuster is definitely undone, I’ve turned the screw upwards until it doesn’t move anymore and it feels as it is already sitting loose between the shoes.
As said I can turn the drum, but only with immense force. It fels like the shoes are still pressing against the drum. I already tried moving the shoe through the inspection hole, but no luck. I will open the brake line and see whether this helps.

Post by **davidoft1** » 03 Mar 2019, 12:59

Probably the handbrake cable stuck, tug the handbrake cable about at the back of the drum, you can also try undoing the small bolts holding the drum on, bolt the wheel back on and use that to help pull the drum off, keep turning the wheel and pulling, also try hitting the drum with a hammer and a few levers between the drum and back plate

Post by **ajsimmo** » 03 Mar 2019, 13:24

davidoft1 wrote:Probably the handbrake cable stuck, tug the handbrake cable about at the back of the drum, you can also try undoing the small bolts holding the drum on, bolt the wheel back on and use that to help pull the drum off, keep turning the wheel and pulling, also try hitting the drum with a hammer and a few levers between the drum and back plate

Sorry David but almost all of this is, er... misleading.
The adjuster bar is backed right off. The handbrake lever on the rear shoe presses against the end of this bar, thus levering the shoes apart to apply the brake. If the adjuster's backed off and loose, it can't be the handbrake cable holding the brake on.
The two drum retaining bolts are not strictly necessary anyway, they are there to retain the drum when you remove the wheel. The studs are pressed into the hub, and refitting the wheel sandwiches the drum so no amount of pulling the wheel will remove the drum!
Also I'd be careful trying to lever against the backplate, as it's quite weak and easily bent but difficult to get straight again when it's rubbed by the drum and driving you to distraction.

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Post by **ajsimmo** » 03 Mar 2019, 13:41

One possibility is that under the extraordinary heat part of the shoe lining has become detached and slipped around between the now backed off shoe and drum. Perseverance, a big lever between two studs to turn the drum, a big hammer smacking it repeatedly, and a helper to pull, grunt and swear is the most likely method.
If needs be, you could try the wheel back on method but remove the hubnut to take off the whole hub/drum assembly. It might give you more purchase.

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Post by **davidoft1** » 03 Mar 2019, 14:20

ajsimmo wrote:
davidoft1 wrote:Probably the handbrake cable stuck, tug the handbrake cable about at the back of the drum, you can also try undoing the small bolts holding the drum on, bolt the wheel back on and use that to help pull the drum off, keep turning the wheel and pulling, also try hitting the drum with a hammer and a few levers between the drum and back plate

Sorry David but almost all of this is, er... misleading.
The adjuster bar is backed right off. The handbrake lever on the rear shoe presses against the end of this bar, thus levering the shoes apart to apply the brake. If the adjuster's backed off and loose, it can't be the handbrake cable holding the brake on.
The two drum retaining bolts are not strictly necessary anyway, they are there to retain the drum when you remove the wheel. The studs are pressed into the hub, and refitting the wheel sandwiches the drum so no amount of pulling the wheel will remove the drum!
Also I'd be careful trying to lever against the backplate, as it's quite weak and easily bent but difficult to get straight again when it's rubbed by the drum and driving you to distraction.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Assuming he’s removed the hub nut as he said bolting the wheel on
Will work, nothing wrong with leverage off the back plates if it’s done carefully and they are easy enough to straighten.

Post by **ajsimmo** » 03 Mar 2019, 15:10

davidoft1 wrote:you can also try undoing the small bolts holding the drum on, bolt the wheel back on and use that to help pull the drum off, keep turning the wheel and pulling...

Ok, but as you referenced removing the two drum retaining bolts, I assumed you intended separating drum from hub. I must have misunderstood your description.

I just envisaged the OP following your suggestion to the letter, whilst avoiding removing the hubnut (as was his stated hope) and pulling for all he's worth trying to remove something that is never gonna budge!

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Post by **Cruzer** » 03 Mar 2019, 20:56

Just a quick update:
Releasing brake fluid through the bleed srew didn’t help, the shoes still press against the drum. Double checked the adjuster, but as said, it is loose. When I peek through the inspection hole I see the shoe against the drum, but imposible to push back. Handbrake cable is loose and moving freely, I think (or feel) the mechanism moves as well.
I will see whether I can borrow a proper breaker bar and 46mm nut from work (otherwise I need to buy one, recommendations welcome

), open the crown nut and try my luck to get it down including the hub with a puller. At least there should not be a huge ridge, as the drums appear on a recent receipt from the previous owner.

Thanks so far, I will keep you updated.

Post by **colinthefox** » 03 Mar 2019, 22:18

When I first bought my van a long time ago, I had the same problem. Now this is going to seem a bit extreme.....I cut the steel centre plate out of the drum with a disc cutter. This gave me access to the mechanicals inside to force the seized cylinder back. New cylinders, shoes and drums and good to go. I know it looks extreme, but I had to replace shoes and cylinders anyway, so the extra cost was a couple of drums.

You could try removing the two holding bolts and whacking the drum forward and back HARD with a rubber mallet (or possibly a long piece of 3x2 and a sledgehammer). It might knock the cylinder back just far enough.

Post by **937carrera** » 03 Mar 2019, 23:25

Sounds to me like the linings have separated and are jamming, the slave cylinder is not retracting or the adjuster is found fully out (we all do daft things

). Make sure the handbrake cable is actually loose as well

Rather than attack the drum, which seems a bit extreme, another approach is to drill out the single bolt that holds the slave in place. You can then dislocate the slave cylinder, which is cheap. Access might be tricky though.

I would be minded to put the wheel back on and use the extra leverage rocking back and forth to try and dislodge whatever is jamming the brake on. If it has started to come off it could just be the lip on the edge of the drum as well

Good luck.

Post by **Cruzer** » 10 Mar 2019, 20:40

Finally got the crown nut open with the help of lots of WD40, a 900mm 3/4“ drive breaker bar and a new 46mm socket. Still I then was barley able to move and remove the drum, but eventually it came off.
The adjuster was retracted completely, handbrake cable was loose, but the brake cylinder was completely stuck and did not retract at all. I could not try as i was alone but I think it might not move when brake pressure was applied either.

I will now replace everything including the flexible and metal brake lines in the back and I should soon be back on the road.

Thanks for your help.

Post by **937carrera** » 10 Mar 2019, 21:20

Check the diameter of the brake drum while it is off, it's possible one of the pins pushed out under hydraulic pressure and then jammed in place causing the problems you encountered

Post by **Ian Hulley** » 11 Mar 2019, 10:23

Sounds like the usual issue of neglect .... the cylinder possibly went out too far and couldn't retract. Replace everything in there as you planned (including the brake/clutch fluid) BUT if you are not 100% confident of what you are doing have it done by a professional.

Ian

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