First gear ratios

[Smiffo]

Afternoon all.

I have a 5sp gearbox, but find first gear a bit too high geared for the weight of the van - it's like you have to change gear into second too soon when you are not really moving that far.!!
I know there are many different versions of boxes out there, and certainly won'y be buying a new gearbox or gearing just for this, but I was wondering if the different boxes had varying ratio's for 1st gear?

I have 16inch Audi A5 alloy wheels, and the total diameter isn't less than original wheels - I don't think - so I assume this is just a common theme with T25's?

Were any 5sp boxes built with different ratios for 1st gear though?

Cheers.

[slowcoach]

Afternoon all.

I have a 5sp gearbox, but find first gear a bit too high geared for the weight of the van - it's like you have to change gear into second too soon when you are not really moving that far.!!
I know there are many different versions of boxes out there, and certainly won'y be buying a new gearbox or gearing just for this, but I was wondering if the different boxes had varying ratio's for 1st gear?

I have 16inch Audi A5 alloy wheels, and the total diameter isn't less than original wheels - I don't think - so I assume this is just a common theme with T25's?

Were any 5sp boxes built with different ratios for 1st gear though?

Cheers.

My 5-speed is the same, could drive up a cliff! Its quite useful though when full of people and on a tight climb with no momentum. I don't mind it.

[marlinowner]

My SA van is the same, only use 1st on steep hillstarts and trickling along in traffic to save the clutch. The time it takes me to manage the dogleg change negates any acceleration advantage. Running 195r80x14 tyres, may look at going bigger as the van could easily pull longer gearing.

[silverbullet]

All first gear are the same 4.1 ratio afaik. Good for a steep hill start when loaded but a waste of time otherwise.

[Smiffo]

Cheers all.

its not the end of the world, but it's almost like it is geared to carry a full load of bricks or something..!!

Thanks for replies though.

[itchyfeet]

Cheers all.

its not the end of the world, but it's almost like it is geared to carry a full load of bricks or something..!!

Thanks for replies though.

Used it many times in Dorset and Cornwall getting from a steep windy beach road back to one with white lines down the middle.
Some people are never happy, use 2nd.

[Smiffo]

Cheers all.

its not the end of the world, but it's almost like it is geared to carry a full load of bricks or something..!!

Thanks for replies though.

Used it many times in Dorset and Cornwall getting from a steep windy beach road back to one with white lines down the middle.
Some people are never happy, use 2nd.

Yes, some people are never happy - they insist on driving on sand when there is a nice flat road to use..!!


Just kidding mate. 2nd it is, I was just curious what others are like

[itchyfeet]

Never mentioned sand, I'm talking steep tarmac roads to remote beaches, the kind where the bushes are scraping down both sides and grass is growing in the middle
Did get stuck in the sand dunes in Shell island once and I can assure you 1st gear is useless, a tow rope and a heavy vehicle is what's needed

[Aidan]

use first to pull away except downhill or just rolling, I see too many badly worn 2nd gears and mainshafts because of people using them as if they are 4 speed boxes, they are geared to be able to tow and or be fully laden, the original engines were all free revving so pulling to 3k rpm is fine, it's not like a modern tdi car with buckets of low down torque and no rev range
Towards the end VW came up with the S ratio 5 speeds which have a higher 2nd gear and as far as I can see the only reason for that was to stop people using 2nd to pull away in all the time as it messes up the gaps between the gears but by 1989 they would have had an awful lot of worn boxes come back on exchange and seen that many people were ignoring 1st gear
for the TDi conversions changing final drive to 4.14 makes 1st gear usable whilst keeping gear spacing and the upper revs limited to suit the engine
just mho of course, I don't drive a 5 speed or a diesel

[ajsimmo]

Always use 1st. (unless downhill/rolling, as AT says). It's not there for better acceleration, it's to reduce wear and stresses on clutch and 'box. Pulling away from stationary is most of the wear on a clutch, and using 1st gear greatly reduces the amount of slip required to set off. Once you're rolling, with every gearchange there's next to no clutch slip/wear, (although some people still manage it!).

[CovKid]

I found that increasing wheel diameter makes the gap between 1st and 2nd far more acceptable. I'm on 82 tyres on 15" wheels and the entire gear range seems about right now with speedo a little closer to being accurate. Granted this doesn't work for those that like a lower ride height but I was never keen on the concept of having to slam the anchors on for a moderately high bump in the road.

I can see why those with 5 speed boxes tended to opt for 2nd on pull away. I did myself prior to the wheel change. 1st was almost an irritant before.

[Smiffo]

Appreciate the feedback everyone.

Just for personal curiosity, is first gear ratio on a 4sp box different then?
( And I suppose the rest of the gearing ratios )

I will stick to using 1st gear after the advice of some of the above - I would rather change gear more often than change the whole gearbox or clutch sooner..!!

Every day is a school day, eh?

[CJH]

Just for personal curiosity, is first gear ratio on a 4sp box different then?
( And I suppose the rest of the gearing ratios )

You have to consider the gear ratio and the final drive ratio together. According to the RJES gearbox page, the 4-speeds seem to have a 1st gear ratio of 3.78, so with the same final drive (say 4.83) and standard 185R14 wheels, the 4-speed will be doing 2395rpm at 10mph, versus the 5-speed's 2604rpm - so ~200rpm slower.

But if that 5-speed box has a 4.57 final drive then it'll be doing 2464rpm at 10mph, so virtually the same as the 4-speed.

[Smiffo]

Just for personal curiosity, is first gear ratio on a 4sp box different then?
( And I suppose the rest of the gearing ratios )

You have to consider the gear ratio and the final drive ratio together. According to the RJES gearbox page, the 4-speeds seem to have a 1st gear ratio of 3.78, so with the same final drive (say 4.83) and standard 185R14 wheels, the 4-speed will be doing 2395rpm at 10mph, versus the 5-speed's 2604rpm - so ~200rpm slower.

But if that 5-speed box has a 4.57 final drive then it'll be doing 2464rpm at 10mph, so virtually the same as the 4-speed.

Thanks for the link mate.

I had no idea there were so many different versions....
Even the 5 speed boxes alone seem to have lots of different variations - not least the BHP that it can handle.
One day I will probably go Subaru when my engine finally makes its last mile, although it seems to be running good with no noises, smoke or burning of oil at the moment, so I'm hoping that will be some time in the future.

Is there a code on the gearbox somewhere to see which box I do have?
More intrigue at the moment, but I notice some gearboxes can handle considerably more power from the engine than others.

[CJH]

I don't think that's necessarily the power it can handle, just the power of the engine it was mated to by VW.

You can find your code (unless it's corroded away) on the casting - from memory you have to crawl under the left side of your van. It may well need a bit of a wire brushing to read the code. If you're sure it's the gearbox that came with your van it'll be on the sticker by your right knee (assuming you're driving it and not sat at home on your computer of course!)