Club 80-90 Forums

Recently picked up a late t25 project from the forum (cheers SteveW!).....& it's my first vw! I bought on body condition over mechanicals and it ticked a lot of boxes for me - I've done bodywork stuff in the past (complete 1275gt mini resto) but I didn't fancy a major rot-fest again so I made sure I found a project without any major body issues. Don't get me wrong - there is body stuff to do but nothing horrific (that I can see at least ). Van has sat for 5 years so plenty of mechanical bits to replace and sort out.

The day it arrived:



After a month of cleaning/painting and generally tarting about:



It came with quite a few spares including:

1x 2.1MV engine - apparent good engine
1x 1.9DG engine - apparent smoker
1x unknown (no engine number) - apparent smoker
1x 1.9DG engine (fitted in the van) - have had it running (just!) - but very smoky & oil pressure buzzer going off!

Engine-wise, all a bit knackered and unknown. I started stripping the MV to do a head seal refresh with the intention of "chucking it in" and getting it running but managed to shear a chunk of the engine casing by bracing against it to undo the crank pulley bolt. Moment of madness......can't believe I was such an idiot, but it's done now....nothing I can do about it (I'm nearly over it ).

So not knowing the condition of any of the engines I decided to look at the "unknown" engine - heads off & checked the stroke which turned out to be 76mm. High compression pistons so assumed to be a 2.1DJ?

Anyway - I've decided to concentrate on this engine & stripped it down to the following:



Damaging the MV was probably a good thing (in a way) with hindsight - it's forced me into doing a proper rebuild. I want to keep the WBX engine - it's a VW afterall so it'd feel wrong to fit a scooby engine this early, especially as it's my first VW.

First complete engine rebuild for me so plenty of learning to be done. I've done quite a few head rebuilds but nothing deeper so I'm at the bottom of the learning curve on this one. Ultimately I want to make sure I do this correctly as I've bought the van as a project that I want to drive my family around in one day so I want to make it as reliable as I possibly can. Slightly scared about the costs/availability of some parts and what I've read about reliability of some rebuilt engines though......

Putting this up here so I can document progress and ask plenty of daft questions. There seems to be a wealth of information on here and some very clever peeps....hoping to tap into some of that knowledge.

Cheers!

Right - first questions.

Looking at the crank - I'm planning to get this checked out by an engine builder local to me but essentially I'm assuming the following:

If the journals are measured and within the spec stated in the Bentley manual then I guess I can install with new std shells? Journals look good to my untrained eye - no scoring/gouging/damage

If the journals are measured and are out of tolerance then I guess it's regrind time? Is this a case of getting the journals ground to the next available shell size? (Brickwerks sell a 0.25mm undersize set - would these be correct?)

I've seen talk of line-boring. Why do engine cases get line-bored? Presumably this is required if a bearing has spun and damaged the case? (I notice that you can buy shells both undersize and oversize - presumably for this reason).

Apologies for the novice questions - any help greatly appreciated. Just want to gen up a bit before chatting to the engine guy......

Ta!

All the answers you have given to your own questions above are correct

Are the heads OK crack wise?

Van looks good by the way (Mind you, I have a white tin-top with Velle wheels too, so I'm biased)

Line boring a case is required not only if there has been a spun bearing, but also if there has been a bearing that's started to shuffle... Also the centre main is a split bearing, so the case can take a pounding especially if the crank has warped/bent

The tolerance is very tight on the case... I don't know the wasser specs off the top of my head, but the type 4 is 70.00 - 70.04mm anything more than that, and the case needs a line bore

ghost123uk wrote:All the answers you have given to your own questions above are correct

Are the heads OK crack wise?

Van looks good by the way (Mind you, I have a white tin-top with Velle wheels too, so I'm biased)

Good stuff - thanks for that. Reason I ask is I've seen differing statements on "reconditioned" engines.....and I understand there are varying levels of rebuild that get described as reconditioned (in some cases "refresh" is probably a more accurate description ).

I've seen an eBay advert for reconditioned engines (and threads on the forum relating to the amount of work that gets done for the cost!) that state the case gets line-bored regardless but I've also seen other engine re-builders state they are less likely to re-grind and will hold out to use a really good (in-spec) crank where possible. The latter makes the most sense to me - why machine something which is still in spec? Peace of mind? (might be a naive statement there!)

Heads look OK under first inspection - I've cleaned up between the valves and cant see any cracks.......I have got the issue of a couple of busted exhaust studs to sort out though

Wheels are F0rd Granada Scorpio - which I think really suit the van - they came with it, the van needed new tyres anyway so I thought "why not?"

Paul Weeding wrote:Line boring a case is required not only if there has been a spun bearing, but also if there has been a bearing that's started to shuffle... Also the centre main is a split bearing, so the case can take a pounding especially if the crank has warped/bent

The tolerance is very tight on the case... I don't know the wasser specs off the top of my head, but the type 4 is 70.00 - 70.04mm anything more than that, and the case needs a line bore

So essentially any damage or out of tolerance on the case bearing seats and it'll need a line bore? Makes sense. It was really only the statement I've seen about line boring as a matter of course which made me question it.

Going to take the crank/case halves to an engine builder local to me and get him to give it the once over and perform any remedial machining.

Thanks for the replies guys - appreciated.

Next up - question about con-rod bolts

2.1DJ uses single use stretch bolts for the big ends......which are discontinued, hard to (if not impossible) to come by?

What options do I have here?

I'm sure I read on an engine builders website (might've been GoWesty?) that they use 1.9 rods to make use of the non-stretch bolts which are still available. Any disadvantages to this? I've got a spare knackered 1.9 DG I could split down for the rods.....

Also seen comment that some people re-use these bolts, just torqued up for the second time and not stretched again (obviously).

You need to speak to Silverbullet.....

tforturton wrote:You need to speak to Silverbullet.....

Cheers, have dropped him a PM

sherlylock wrote:Next up - question about con-rod bolts

2.1DJ uses single use stretch bolts for the big ends......which are discontinued, hard to (if not impossible) to come by?

What options do I have here?

I'm sure I read on an engine builders website (might've been GoWesty?) that they use 1.9 rods to make use of the non-stretch bolts which are still available. Any disadvantages to this? I've got a spare knackered 1.9 DG I could split down for the rods.....

Also seen comment that some people re-use these bolts, just torqued up for the second time and not stretched again (obviously).

The 1.9 and 2.1 use the same stretch bolts, I think you are confusing with using air cooled standard bolts. But Gunzl have new stretch bolts.

bigherb wrote:

sherlylock wrote:Next up - question about con-rod bolts

2.1DJ uses single use stretch bolts for the big ends......which are discontinued, hard to (if not impossible) to come by?

What options do I have here?

I'm sure I read on an engine builders website (might've been GoWesty?) that they use 1.9 rods to make use of the non-stretch bolts which are still available. Any disadvantages to this? I've got a spare knackered 1.9 DG I could split down for the rods.....

Also seen comment that some people re-use these bolts, just torqued up for the second time and not stretched again (obviously).

The 1.9 and 2.1 use the same stretch bolts, I think you are confusing with using air cooled standard bolts. But Gunzl have new stretch bolts.

Yeah quite possibly - I've done a lot of reading recently so may have confused things slightly - and I haven't got first hand experience of tearing down a 1.9 WBX

Stretch bolts are listed on Gunzl but there is no "add to cart" button so I assume still out of stock (I read a thread on here recently that they weren't available)

Gave the heads a really good clean between the valves and (no) surprise surprise - cracks!







Camshaft has also seen better days......





Odd pitting on the surface - has this worn through the case hardening?

Next stop - splitting the MV engine to see what the internals are like on that and to see if I can salvage anything from it

Rebuild coming along at a snails pace

New con-rods purchased from VWHeritage (all because I can't get new bottom end stretch bolts)
New camshaft bought from Mecatechnic (France)......not arrived yet but a 2 week waiting time was mentioned when I ordered.

One case half has had a first pass clean - to get rid of the major dirt and detritus. Good couple of hours spent to get to this state. One thread needs replacing - one of the pushrod tinware fixings. Helicoil kit has been ordered.......

Buying new conrods actually works out cheaper than new bolts and having the big ends re-sized and little end bushes replaced...

silverbullet wrote:Buying new conrods actually works out cheaper than new bolts and having the big ends re-sized and little end bushes replaced...

Yeah - thanks for that heads up on those - much appreciated. (I made it sound like a whinge in the previous post didn't I?)

What's the best stuff for dissolving the carbon deposits inside the engine casing? I've been using "Gunk" and a stiff brush/toothbrush which has been fairly successful but I need to get some of the more stubborn stuff off......

Brake cleaner. Wear nitrile gloves & specs and ventilate your workspace.