Manual fuel pump

[johnfevs]

Looks like my fuel pump may not be working. Not getting any fuel to the carbs. Where can I get a replacement or repair kit. I have checked all the obvious places but can't find one. It's for a 2.0 CU Aircooled it's the mechanical one I think. Cheers

[CovKid]

Thats because its obsolete. You only needed to read two posts down. Search on ebay for "facet posi-flow low pressure" - thats what you want. Under £30. It will outperform pump you have now and cheaper. Also search for 'facet' on here. Lots about it. Just seal off your existing pump, and fit the facet instead, underneath the vehicle.

It only draws 2amps so doesn't really need a relay either, although you could fit one if you can justify one. Positive hooks into blue 'exciter' wire from alternator, black to earth. The only faff will be joining up pipes as facet inlet/outlet is 8mm. I just upgraded to 8mm pipe/hose.

[kevtherev]

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as another option

[CovKid]

dead link

I did find it after searching. £84.

[kevtherev]

Bizarre!

As said £84.00

Replaces the mechanical fuel pump on the 2.0l Aircooled models.

Comes with mounting hardware.
Should be wired through a fuel pump cut off relay to prevent the pump continuing to run should the engine stop.


Supplied by Pierburg, so its as good as OE!

[CovKid]

Not bizarre. Its because you originally posted the direct link to pump and have since amended it to just go to domain. I think the link may have been from a session if the site remembers your login details. Thats definately the one. Thanks.

Anyway, the main thing is try to keep to a low pressure pump otherwise you may require an additional regulator, although the facet model I indicated doesn't need one and keeps up just fine. Both are perfectly suited.

Note: Both pumps are 8mm fittings.

[johnfevs]

Thanks for the info I will have a good look later. What size are the pipes on the original pump ??

I'll read some more on the forum

Cheers

[johnfevs]

Ordered a facet pump, hopefully be here to fit on Saturday. Where do I find the the wire from the alternator ?

[CovKid]

Its normally a thin blue one. It goes front to back from alternator and comes up on the dash. You can connect it either end as long as the red wire on the pump is tapped into that. Its the same trigger wire used to fire the split charge relay if you've got one of those. When you get pump, you'll see that the negative (black) has a ring connector on it. You can put that under the nut and bolt you use to fasten it to the chassis. Has to be wired into trigger wire like that so if engine stops, fuel pump stops. Safety feature. You can wire it in other ways but blue wire is generally the simplest.

When starting vehicle, pump will start the moment red ignition light is out and you'll hear pump chatter until line is primed after which it quietens down. If you're really flash, you can fit a push-to-make switch so if you ever run out of petrol and have to pour a can in, you can push the button and the pump will fill the line for you - saves a lot of hassle if you're stranded somewhere awkward.

[johnfevs]

Ok, I'll have a look for the wire before the weekend and sort out a fused feed ready for when I get the pump.
Thanks for your help.

[CovKid]

Its worth noting that a few places advocate a relay to power an elecric fuel pump and ordinarily I'd agree with that, but as these low pressure Facet pumps only pull 2 amps max, it would seem superflous. Many pumps draw a lot more than 2 amps including the bigger facet pumps but this one is a tiddler really. In my view a relay used here introduces more potential for poor connections and/or failure which is the last thing you need for fuel delivery. If it were a more modified circuit via the ignition switch it would be different but by keeping the whole thing really simple, you improve reliability - at least in my view. An 8 amp fuse covers the bases. The alternator trigger wire is comparable to the positive wire on pump in terms of capacity.

As long as alternator runs, the pump runs. Obviously if alternator fails, the pump stops also, but then I wouldn't be driving anywhere if my battery was running down anyway. The pump does come with a diagram though so you can fit it how you wish.

Theres also a useful page on the Samba if you decide to throw a 30amp relay into the equation:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... ?p=7299759" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the universal Pierburg pump sold by Brickwerks also draws 2 amps or less. Spec for that one here if anyone is interested: http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/SI%2000 ... 20pump.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - look for the 7.21440.51.0 one (first in the list). The Pieburg and the Facet don't work in the same way though. The latter uses electromagnetic oscillation to move a stainless steel plunger and the former is a rotary pump. Both good pumps - they just work differently.

Anyway, for the price of these solid-state Facet pumps, and they're said to be very reliable, lasting four to five times longer than many other pump types, and apparently used on aircraft as well as recommended by Ferrari of all people, you could always sling a spare under the back seat if you really wanted to. Its a lot quicker to fit than a mechanical one and good value.

I should add, for those with mechanical pumps that are running absolutely fine, don't swap pump out just for the sake of it. The stock pump is very reliable and you won't go any faster with an electric one, plus with electric ones, the line is under slight pressure instead of fuel being sucked through. Good hoses and clips therefore essential.

Don't fit a bigger Facet - stay with a low pressure one. Stock pressure is 3 to 7 PSI - go above that and you will get leaks and potentially damage float needle valve. You'd also need a regulator to reduce the pressure (silly) and a relay to deal with a bigger amp draw.

Anyway, enough of pumps.

[kevtherev]

informative post there Ralph.

[johnfevs]

Hopefully when I get this new pump up and running it will also sort out some of the other running problems I have been having. Poor performance especially up hills hopefully due to the lack of fuel coming through also recently it has been intermittently running on 3 cylinders again hopefully due to fuel starvation.
Once I get it running I can get some of the other problems sorted.

[CovKid]

Yes could be that. If you're not getting sufficient fuel under those conditions, could well be your pump. Unfortunately mech ones can function seemingly ok under most conditions but as the diaphram gradually weakens or starts to develop a split, you get a fall off in performance under heavy load or where a sudden burst of power is needed. With a split or hole, fuel in the line tends to vanish over a day or so. Conversely, electric pumps (depending on type) can just fail in a blink.

That said, I wouldn't want anyone to think that their poor running will be instantly cured by swapping the pump for an electric one. The chances are it won't, particularly if it has a consistent misfire.

Facet can be noisy when you first start engine (bit like a small rodent with a tiny road drill) but I like it like that. I can hear its working and it goes quiet after a minute. You can also crawl underneath and see the fuel going through the filter when its running (you don't tend to see that with a mech pump). I would imagine that draining the tank would be very easy via the pump too.

Thanks all.

[johnfevs]

I've been under the van this evening in preperation for fitting the new electric fuel pump. I have located the blue wire from the alternator and have bought a fuse holder ready. Wiring of the new pump should be straight forward !!
The existing fuel pipes under the van look a right mess. It comes from the tank in rubber hose to the fuel filter in 6mm or 1/4". The spigot on the fuel filter looks too big but the pipes are on there. Then there is a short piece of rubber hose again 6mm or 1/4" which connects to a plastic pipe which is pushed inside the other hose and clamped. It is the same arrangement at the input to the pump but I could pull the plastic pipe out. From the pump it's again 6mm or 1/4" hose which runs into the engine bay and splits to the 2 carbs in 1/4" hose.
From the pump to the carbs all looks fairly new.

Now the problem, the new pump has 8mm spigots so how do I attach this to the 6mm spigots for the tank and carbs. Can you get reducers from 8 to 6mm. I plan on running a new rubber hose from the new pump to the carbs and replacing the hoses from the tank to the filter and filer to pump.

Any ideas, cheers