Early vs late DG Engine

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randamonia
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Early vs late DG Engine

Post by randamonia »

ok....so I have a replacement engine sitting with my mechanic after i cooked mine. I ordered a late model engine (1987 Komet), but it looks like I don't have the original engine and it may be an early model. Grrrr! Will look to get the engine number tomorrow to confirm.
  
Realistically though, how interchangeable are parts going to be if this is the case?  I'm looking to replace anything that needs replacing, certainly any metal coolant pipes etc. but not looking to replace everything unless I have to. 

How much of a nightmare is this going to be?  Arghh

Pic of current engine....can anyone say from this if early or late?Image
1987 Autohomes Komet 1.9 DG

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R0B
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by R0B »

I believe getting your hands on new early parts is not as easy as new late parts.
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by Mocki »

The picture is of a wbx with a early water system , and with Lpg .

the only actual difference between a early and late WBX externally is the early only has one oil pressure port , between the push rods , the late has the second under the heater pump behind the pulley .

everything will be interchangeable , everything that bolts on , is swappable from late to early , early to late .

much better to change a early engine to late cooling system to match a late van .

 
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randamonia
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by randamonia »

Thanks for confirming folks....I may sleep a little now from your reassurance.  The LPG isn't getting transferred over to the new engine. Haven't used it in ages and will like the room I get back which the tank is taking up.

So, for the main it just sounds like I just need to try to work out the parts for late cooling system that are different to the early?  I don't suppose anyone has done this and has a list or can point me to a good schematic?  I have been looking at schematics on heritage parts etc but it's not obvious tallying the parts.  

My mechanic is going to love me when I tell him this :-)

Thanks again folks
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maxstu
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by maxstu »

You my well have a late engine block and an early cooling system. My previous 1984 camper had the same set up with a donor late engine. See picture of arrow. Does current engine have the second DOPs oil switch here?

Functionwise and, in my opinion, the early cooling system is as efficient as late system and without the worry of front to back metal coolant pipe rusting issue and an awkward to get plastic at (yet cheap and easily available) thermostat housing.

If the new donor engine is late version at least you can run the DOPs system again.
Perhaps it comes with some late cooling parts

To change..IIRC?
Thermostat housing and associated pipework
Thermostat perhaps?
Waterpump
Front to back metal pipe (in stainless preferably) with short elbow pipe to thermostat housing
Coolant spigots behind crank pulley and connecting short pipe.
Coolant rail and connecting pipes? May well be already inside your 87 van but redundant.
New top up tank.
Distribution unit and pipes to radiator. Again may be in van already?
Plus a few more bits lve forgotten.

I would stick with early cooling system. But reinstall DOPs for the late engine
Last edited by maxstu on 29 Jul 2021, 08:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by DoubleOSeven »

I’ve put two late cooling systems in from scratch on my threads, but the schematics are on 7 zap vw for reference (see url below)

Threads:
1986 singlecab I
1990 singlecab II

I’d put a late system into your late van just to make it right, but as the guys say, the early cooling system has its advantages too.

> Late system bleed rail & thermostat position are bit of a faff.

> Early system thermostat housing now available again at Brickwerks. I guess someone did a 3D model of it, as the aluminium one was becoming hard to get hold of 2nd hand. That pipe behind the pulley wheel is a pain though.

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/typ+ ... 1987-65/1/

Image

Image
Image
Last edited by DoubleOSeven on 29 Jul 2021, 08:39, edited 3 times in total.
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T25Convert
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by T25Convert »

You say you cooked the last engine - is that a result of the cooling system, or some other error?

Assuming the cooling system worked before and wasn't the reason you are installing a new engine, I personally would unbolt the old block and bolt the new one in (or get your mechanic to do it!)

Asking your mechanic to piece together a late cooling system onto your new engine has the potential to cause more issues I would suggest than you may solve. Its also unlikely to be cheap, for very limited potential gains. 

If you had no cooling system, or it was all totally rotten then I would suggest late in the late van, but given you have an apparently working coolant system I don't personally see the advantage of the swap.
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by DoubleOSeven »

^^^ This is excellent advice by the way, if it ain't broke don't fix it. T25 convert has nailed it.
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by randamonia »

I had a catastrophic failure of the cooling system on the motor way :-(  The metal flange on the rear of the engine corroded completely resulting in rapid loss of coolant.

I therefore don't trust the rest of the system after forking out for a new engine and some of it is visibly tired, so will be looking to replace much of it anyway.   

Looking at the exhaust, it's an early model. I am assuming the replacement engine they just pulled the lot from the donor.  I assume this will fit ok?  Any real advantage to swapping it out?  Would rather not as it looks to be in good condition.

Thanks all for the great advice.  

 
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DoubleOSeven
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Early vs late DG Engine

Post by DoubleOSeven »

Early exhaust is fine.

Late vans have different engine carriers for the exhaust brackets, but you don’t need them with an early exhaust system.

Image
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T25Convert
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by T25Convert »

randamonia wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 13:33 I had a catastrophic failure of the cooling system on the motor way :-(  The metal flange on the rear of the engine corroded completely resulting in rapid loss of coolant.

I therefore don't trust the rest of the system after forking out for a new engine and some of it is visibly tired, so will be looking to replace much of it anyway.   

Looking at the exhaust, it's an early model. I am assuming the replacement engine they just pulled the lot from the donor.  I assume this will fit ok?  Any real advantage to swapping it out?  Would rather not as it looks to be in good condition.

Thanks all for the great advice.  



I'd still just replace the bits that look tired - its easy for a mechanic to say this flange/pipe/pump etc looks knackered and order part number XXX and pop the same piece in the same place, a much bigger ask to say here's an entire system in little bits go build me a new cooling system, unless he is a genuine expert or has another one as a template I would suggest. 

Did the magic flashing red light of no coolant not work? In theory at least it should have come on, giving you time to stop before fully baking the engine, assume if it didn't this will be checked and sorted as part of the works.

As above early/late exhaust is fine as long as its complete - they don't mix, but having one or the other is fine. 
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Re: Early vs late DG Engine

Post by DoubleOSeven »

Swap or check the 2 prong sensor in the coolant filler plastic tank. Start there.
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