Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

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NickBab
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Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by NickBab »

Hi

As some of you may know I had an unfortunate luck of blowing the head gasket on my JX engine on the way to busfest.. A little embarrassing turning up to the show on the back of a breakdown truck, but at least we still managed to enjoy the weekend.

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This helped accelerate my priorities to upgrade the engine in the Syncro. I'd always intended doing this anyway and already purchased the donor, a 1 owner AFN engined Passat with 125k miles on the clock and full service history. I didn't have the heart to tell the 80 year old seller I was going to rip the engine out.

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So after busfest. it was time to get the engine out:

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Engine out I set about getting rid of all the auxiliaries, down to almost the bare engine. Luckily I have a good friend and expert on hand in Andy (crazy-for-a-syncro) to help guide me as this will be the biggest mechanical job I've tackled so far. Luckily Andy also has JX spares knocking around his workshop so I can start rebuilding the engine prior to taking the engine out of my Syncro. We'll also try to build a test bed out of the van to check the timing etc.

1st jobs tackled - replaced AFN oil pickup for JX pickup

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Replaced AFN sump with JX sump, including new gasket

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Replaced crank oil seal while sump off

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Replaced water pump

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I'm going down the mTDi route in the hope this will get me up and running quicker. Later on I'll probably go the full TDi route and I've already taken the engine and dash loom out of the Passat in preparation. A quick Google and the Land Rover 300tdi pump seems to be a popular choice and luckily I managed to find one cheap on eBay.

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Before progressing further I need to get the pump bracket machined out to take the new pump. I believe it needs a 68mm hole. I'm trying to find somewhere local to do this.

So watch this space. I'm pretty sure I've finalised the route I want to go, but I'd welcome feedback along the way. Especially if someone's done the same swap.

Tim at Ultimate is building an engine mount ready for the swap and my intention is to reuse the turbo etc. off the JX to get me up and running ASAP. Saying that I do have a day job and other commitments over the next few weekends so progress may not be particularly quick.

I'll be at the Adventure Overland show Saturday and would appreciate looking into engine bays of anyone else who's done a TDi swap. It'll be good to hear what people have done re mechanical pumps, intercoolers, ECU locations etc.

All being well I'll also be at Brighton Breeze if anyone there would be kind enough to share experiences.

Thought I'd start a log of the swap in case it helps someone else + to give a central point to ask questions.

Wish me luck :D

Thanks
Nick
87 Syncro, 73 Bay, 67 Beetle and other non VW stuff

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lloydy
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by lloydy »

the one thing to be aware of using a passat engine is that the aux set up is different, it is all held a fair bit higher. The alternator will hit you engine lid on a syncro and stick through on a 2wd. For a syncro you cut just fit the aaz cover brickwerks sell. for a 2wd i don't know what you'd do. Also if your keeping the power steering pump, it will hit the right hand engine bar. so a chunk needs cutting out then re-enforcing behind it. Also, the right hand jx engine mount does not fit to the block so you have to make or buy one.
i will be at the AO show, i have a passat lump in mine. your welcome to have a look.
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by NickBab »

Thanks lloyd, I'll definitely take you up on that.

I didn't plan to keep the power steering pump. It'll be good to take some pics of your engine bay to help my planning.

Thanks again
Nick
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bobby-gg
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by bobby-gg »

Which side engine mount is Tim making for you?

Just that the inline engine bolt holes are slightly different on the oil filter side of an inline engine compared to a transverse engine

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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by NickBab »

He's making the right hand side mount and knows it's a Passat engine.

Dropped the pump bracket off at a local engineering company yesterday. Surprised they wanted £150 to increase the hole size to 68mm. :shock:
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by syncroandy »

Just a heads-up on the Passat aux setup. My recollection is a bit dim as I did mine in 2012, but I recollect an embuggeration factor if trying to use it with no-PAS, no-A/C. I couldn't figure out a route for the ribbed alt belt that would work. The water pump runs the other way round to 'normal' IIRC, so take care. You may want to have a close look at this. I'd been given an AHU long block so I ended up using that instead of the Passat block, and went with a compact 'Golf type' aux setup. The alt sits lower down with this so there's no clearance issues.

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lloydy
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by lloydy »

on a passat the A/C runs on its own belt and tensioner, so np problem there just don't fit it. P/S pump delete could be a bit more tricky..
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by NickBab »

Thanks. Maybe adding an idler pulley in place of the PS pump to change direction for the water pump will work? Need to get to the workshop to figure out.

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/show ... -belt-rout" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by colinthefox »

I think you can use the PAS pump as an idler if you take out the pump vanes, block off the flow and return holes, and fill it up with oil.

That's what I've done, but admittedly a different engine to yours.
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by lloydy »

wonder if you could run a charge cooler pump from there?
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by NickBab »

Thanks for everyone's advise so far. Rather than buying a Passat it's becoming clear a transverse engine may have been a better donor. The Passat had such good service history though.

I spotted a cheap AHU Golf come up for sale today and at £75 thought It was worth a punt. Not had chance to properly look round it yet, but this may give a few more options. Investigate using parts to build the AFN or maybe use the AHU block as the base. Decisions, decisions.

I'll take a closer look at the Golf over the weekend and take it from there.

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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by mrhutch »

colinthefox wrote:I think you can use the PAS pump as an idler if you take out the pump vanes, block off the flow and return holes, and fill it up with oil.

That's what I've done, but admittedly a different engine to yours.

I've done the same on a GTi conversion as well. worked well.
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by NickBab »

Managed to get some time on the engine last weekend. I've decided to stick with the AFN engine and change the alternator and pump setup using the Golf/AHU donor parts . This should sit much better in the engine bay and allow easier belt routing.

First thing was to rip the front off the Golf then remove the alternator parts

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I believe these are the parts needed off the Golf for now.

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I've left the Golf so it still starts and drives for short distances without water. I'll store that for a while until I need more parts or sell it. We buggered the timing getting the lower plastic cambelt cover off so had to reset this to get the Golf going again. Good practice I suppose :(

Back to the AFN. Fitted a Brickwerks blanking plate on the JX sump then started to mod the block ready for the AHU water pump and alternator setup.

This lug needed to be removed as clashed with the AHU brackets

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This hole also needed tapping

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I need a new AHU water pump so the rest will need to wait till I have that.

Then replaced the glow plugs. On testing 3 of the 4 originals were duff. Also removed and tested the injectors. Very tight to get out, I'm glad we did it without the pump in the way.

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Then onto the fuel pump bracket. The machined bracket took the Landy pump well, we just needed to modify the rear fixing plate. We did this by combining the rear AFN and Landy plates as below

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I'll take the AHU pump bracket and rear plate off the Golf eventually as a spare if/when I go ECU.

I didn't realise the Landy pump is timed using the pulley so work stalled while a Landy pulley was ordered.

This is a good place for me to keep a log of what's changed, but I hope it helps someone else going through a similar build. It may save someone else hours of googling.

Loads still to do.

Thanks Andy for your help so far.

Nick
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by NickBab »

An update after loads more research, some trial and error and delays due to faulty parts.

I made the mistake of ordering a Land Rover 300 Tdi pump pulley which was HUGE, much bigger than the original AFN. I researched and saw people had success with Mk4 Golf and Landy 200 tdi pulleys so I ordered both to trial. Both the Mk4 and 200 pulleys are slotted so it’s possible to adjust the timing. I read others had used the AFN pulley and slotted the pump mounts. I preferred the pulley method so I could follow the standard Landy timing method.

You’ll see the 4 pulleys below for comparison. 300tdi top, 200tdi next down, mk4 next and AFN bottom.

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Comparing these I thought the mk4 was the nearest match to the AFN so went with that. This means changing the hub on the pump to accept the new pulley. Before doing this I had to modify both the hub and pulley to take the larger Landy timing pin

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To fit the hub in the correct place on the pump shaft you need to time it on the bench. Before doing this I replaced the longer Landy delivery valves with the AFN delivery valves. This allows the reuse of the standard AFN injector pipes.

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Then to time the pump on the bench take off the hub and set the woodruff slot just before valve 1 (normally marked yellow). Stick the gauge in the rear and find the zero point. The standard Landy timing is 1.54mm, but after much research I decided to go with 1.45mm as my starting point. The Landy pump has a locking bolt on the left so once you get to the desired timing you can lock the pump while installing the hub in the correct position with the timing pin in place.

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This then gives the correct timing pin location to start timing on the engine. Be aware even with the pin in the pulley moves up to 0.2mm so it still needs timing once on the engine, hence the slots in the pulley. The pin gives a good starting point at top dead centre.

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Next onto the AHU water pump/alternator setup. To finish the modification to mount this onto the AFN block I added a stud to the AHU water pump bracket to compensate for the missing stud on the block. The assembly is held in place by 3 bolts + the belt will pull the stud I added onto to the block making it secure.

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I also fitted a new AHU water pump and replaced the thermostat + replaced various gaskets, seals and other serviceable parts as I was going along

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I then mounted the engine on a pallet/test bed along with Andy’s Syncro gearbox which is out of his van at the moment. Tied this up with a JX flywheel and starter so I could get the engine running

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Also fitted a new cambelt kit, my JX Manifold/turbo setup and my JX exhaust. Mounted the engine at the right angle using the Syncro engine mounts.

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Timed up on the test bed

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Wired up with battery and plumbed in diesel from a can.

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Then time for a 1st start

https://youtu.be/524l0LYnJYQ

Definitely not the result I wanted. Started, but ran like shi*e, very smokey and wouldn’t rev. Everything pointed to the eBay Landy pump which the seller guaranteed me was OK. Time to enter eBay pump hell:

Bought another pump off eBay which again, the seller guaranteed me was a good one.

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Went through all of the above again to fit it, time it etc then trial start. It started (just about) and rev’d, but diesel was pi**ing out of the front of the pump – argghhh! I didn’t even bother filming that one.

Onto pump 3 off eBay. Went through all of the above AGAIN then started:

https://youtu.be/WvDU7j_Z398

Success! Seems to be running really well and starts on the button every time :D

I’m so glad I used the test bed as replacing the pumps, cambelt etc 3 times would not have been fun in the engine bay. Needless to say I’m becoming quite an expert at swapping belts, timing etc now. Chasing refunds on the other 2 pumps, but not happy the sellers cost me hours of labour and a couple weeks delay.

Now to get the engine into the van although I may try to rig up the alternator 1st as it’s so much easier on the test bed.

I’m sure there’s loads I missed in my write up so feel free to ask questions.
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Re: Syncro JX to AFN mTDi swap

Post by boonflap2006 »

hi how did you get over the aux belt power steering pump issue im about at this stage now :ok

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